Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 206213 times)

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Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4175: June 04, 2019, 03:55:11 PM »
GMs are paid a lot of money to make better decisions than people at home. We have no way of knowing how other GMs viewed Eaton because none of them actually traded for him (unless you want to infer that no GM was as off on their valuation as rizzo because they didn’t pay for him).

GMs are trading with other GMs that are paid a lot of money with highly paid support staff as well.  No GM is consistently going to "win" every trade, especially when there is no crystal ball for health and how a guy will develop.  Rizzo has some wins, some losses, and some draws.  I can't say any of them looked to be totally crazy at the time, although not every trade ultimately panned out. 

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4176: June 04, 2019, 03:59:22 PM »
GMs are trading with other GMs that are paid a lot of money with highly paid support staff as well.  No GM is consistently going to "win" every trade, especially when there is no crystal ball for health and how a guy will develop.  Rizzo has some wins, some losses, and some draws.  I can't say any of them looked to be totally crazy at the time, although not every trade ultimately panned out. 

So he wins some loses some and has some draws, he’s not a particularly good drafter or great at player development, so what relative advantage should nats fans bank on to see a winner other than another tanking cycle?

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4177: June 04, 2019, 04:17:53 PM »
So he wins some loses some and has some draws, he’s not a particularly good drafter or great at player development, so what relative advantage should nats fans bank on to see a winner other than another tanking cycle?

We're what, top 3 or 4 in wins going back to 2012 now?  If he's not good at anything, then how have the Nats been more successful than the vast majority of teams?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4178: June 04, 2019, 04:30:05 PM »
We're what, top 3 or 4 in wins going back to 2012 now?  If he's not good at anything, then how have the Nats been more successful than the vast majority of teams?

How many teams have won World Series since then, pennants or even playoff series? The nats rode the results of tanking and a record setting contract to success- Harper is gone, rendon is almost gone. If you want to perpetuate that into the future, the team has to either tank or turn into the Yankees

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4179: June 04, 2019, 04:42:14 PM »
How many teams have won World Series since then, pennants or even playoff series? The nats rode the results of tanking and a record setting contract to success- Harper is gone, rendon is almost gone. If you want to perpetuate that into the future, the team has to either tank or turn into the Yankees

Tanking explains a run of 7 years of winning?  The Nats had no major league talent and a TERRIBLE system when Rizzo arrived.  Strasburg and Harper alone didn't transform this from the worst franchise to one of the biggest winners. 

Online bluestreak

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4180: June 04, 2019, 04:53:56 PM »
How many teams have won World Series since then, pennants or even playoff series? The nats rode the results of tanking and a record setting contract to success- Harper is gone, rendon is almost gone. If you want to perpetuate that into the future, the team has to either tank or turn into the Yankees

5 teams. It's hard to do. If all it took was drafting a top flight slugger and pitcher to win, the Marlins would have done it.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4181: June 04, 2019, 04:55:21 PM »
Tanking explains a run of 7 years of winning?  The Nats had no major league talent and a TERRIBLE system when Rizzo arrived.  Strasburg and Harper alone didn't transform this from the worst franchise to one of the biggest winners. 

Tanking explains three draft picks who transformed the team. That and the lerners spending is the source of their success

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4182: June 04, 2019, 04:56:18 PM »
5 teams. It's hard to do. If all it took was drafting a top flight slugger and pitcher to win, the Marlins would have done it.

By the time you get to winning a playoff series, the nats end up in some mediocre company. It obviously takes more to win, which Rizzo hasn’t done

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4183: June 05, 2019, 10:03:02 AM »
By the time you get to winning a playoff series, the nats end up in some mediocre company. It obviously takes more to win, which Rizzo hasn’t done

I don't get either praising the GM/faulting them when our playoff losses have basically come down to a player choking.  The GM's job is to put together a team that over 162 can get to the postseason and have a chance.  A GM isn't any smarter or dumber if a player chokes or comes up big.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4184: June 05, 2019, 10:07:01 AM »
I don't get either praising the GM/faulting them when our playoff losses have basically come down to a player choking.  The GM's job is to put together a team that over 162 can get to the postseason and have a chance.  A GM isn't any smarter or dumber if a player chokes or comes up big.

Who fielded a team that was supposed to contend with sad face storen as the closer? Or Gio getting playoff starts?

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4185: June 05, 2019, 10:37:12 AM »
Who fielded a team that was supposed to contend with sad face storen as the closer? Or Gio getting playoff starts?

How many teams do you think have 4 better starters than what Gio had been?  You think all the teams that have won have never had starts go to guys less accompished than Gio?  Drew Storen had 43 saves in 2012 with a 2.40 ERA and 1.00 WHIP.  You think other teams wouldn't have been happy to have that as a closer? 

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4186: June 05, 2019, 10:37:44 AM »
I don't get either praising the GM/faulting them when our playoff losses have basically come down to a player choking.  The GM's job is to put together a team that over 162 can get to the postseason and have a chance.  A GM isn't any smarter or dumber if a player chokes or comes up big.
You must say, it’s a pretty darn good start when Strasburg and Harper fall into your lap while at the time the rest of the division is one of the worst in the history of the game. Rizzo is very lucky he hasn’t been fired yet.

Go Naaaaaaaaats!!!


Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4187: June 05, 2019, 10:39:38 AM »
You must say, it’s a pretty darn good start when Strasburg and Harper fall into your lap while at the time the rest of the division is one of the worst in the history of the game. Rizzo is very lucky he hasn’t been fired yet.

Go Naaaaaaaaats!!!

The guys I've read about for years on here being overrated and always hurt anyway?  Yea, they alone carried this franchise.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4188: June 05, 2019, 10:44:12 AM »
How many teams do you think have 4 better starters than what Gio had been?  You think all the teams that have won have never had starts go to guys less accompished than Gio?  Drew Storen had 43 saves in 2012 with a 2.40 ERA and 1.00 WHIP.  You think other teams wouldn't have been happy to have that as a closer? 

Most teams would realize that every time he got the ball in the post season, he blew a save

Offline Scrapple

  • Posts: 255
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4189: June 05, 2019, 10:50:36 AM »
The guys I've read about for years on here being overrated and always hurt anyway?  Yea, they alone carried this franchise.
Who said “alone”???
To this point, Rizzo has done some good, and he has done some crap. He has also never won a Playoff Series when there was a mere walkthrough in the NL East for 6 years. He is lucky to have not been fired.

Go Naaaaaaaaats!!!

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4190: June 05, 2019, 10:59:37 AM »
There are 30 teams in the mlb, about half the teams make the post season (over half with wild card expansion, just under half before). Rizzo was hired in 2009, so 10 complete seasons. His teams have made the playoffs 4 times - so slight less than half the seasons he’s been here. It seems like that’s a perfectly mediocre record

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4191: June 05, 2019, 11:04:02 AM »
Most teams would realize that every time he got the ball in the post season, he blew a save

He had never been in that position until he did blow it.  I guess Rizzo should get the crystal ball that other GMs have.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4192: June 05, 2019, 11:05:56 AM »
There are 30 teams in the mlb, about half the teams make the post season (over half with wild card expansion, just under half before). Rizzo was hired in 2009, so 10 complete seasons. His teams have made the playoffs 4 times - so slight less than half the seasons he’s been here. It seems like that’s a perfectly mediocre record

Math is not your strong suit.  About half?  Then you say over half?  There are 10 teams that make the postseason.  3 division winners in each league, and the wild card play in game between another 2 teams.  10 out of 30 isn't "about half" or above half.  It's 30%  Sheesh.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4193: June 05, 2019, 11:07:55 AM »
Math is not your strong suit.  About half?  Then you say over half?  There are 10 teams that make the postseason.  3 division winners in each league, and the wild card play in game between another 2 teams.  10 out of 30 isn't "about half" or above half.  It's 30%  Sheesh.

The conclusion holds 3 appearances in 10 years is perfectly mediocre

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4194: June 05, 2019, 11:12:42 AM »
The conclusion holds 3 appearances in 10 years is perfectly mediocre

We've been to the postseason 4 times in the past 7 years.  If you're holding not making the postseason the first few years he was here against him, then please go find another sport you understand to follow.  4 out of 7 years is 57% of the time making the postseason.  30% of the teams make the postseason, so the "average team" makes 2.1 playoff appearances in 7 years.  He doubled that.  You are very bad at math.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4195: June 05, 2019, 11:15:27 AM »
He’s been GM since 2009

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4196: June 05, 2019, 11:17:19 AM »
He’s been GM since 2009

You also apparently aren't great at reading.  Go back to my post.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

  • Posts: 1434
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4197: June 05, 2019, 11:19:14 AM »
2009 he takes over a 59-102 team.  They improve by 10 wins to 69 wins in 2010.  Another 11 wins to 80 wins in 2011.  Thn to 98 wins in 2012. 

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20168
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4198: June 05, 2019, 11:20:01 AM »
You also apparently aren't great at reading.  Go back to my post.

4/7 is .57, 4/10 is .40 after this year it’ll be 4/11

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4199: June 05, 2019, 11:21:53 AM »
4/7 is .57, 4/10 is .40 after this year it’ll be 4/11

You either are trolling or just not on a level worth arguing with.  Everything zooms right over your head.