Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 200144 times)

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Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4100: May 28, 2019, 11:33:57 AM »
True, but how do you even draft for that position?

Apparently Rizzo thought you could

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4101: May 28, 2019, 11:35:15 AM »
Seems to me like it's really hard to disentangle causation here.

Is Rizzo bad at scouting and drafting, or is there a failure in either scouting or player development below him?

Is Rizzo bad at trades and payroll structuring, or he doing the best he can with an activist owner who has poor instincts?

Rizzo was widely considered a genius when the Nats were rebuilding and the Nats now seem likely to be rebuilding again soon.

The best players Rizzo acquired though this stretch were by taking best player available in the draft and by offering a then record setting contract - genius seems to be a stretch

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4102: May 28, 2019, 11:42:01 AM »
The best players Rizzo acquired though this stretch were by taking best player available in the draft and by offering a then record setting contract - genius seems to be a stretch

He traded the guy currently lighting up guys for the Pissburgh Pirates for Mark Melancon which got him nowhere in the playoffs and lost him an electric lefty that would have been a very cheap closer, setup, or fireman.  The Eaton trade is likely going to go down as an L.  Not seeing what genius moves Rizzo's made.

Online Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4103: May 28, 2019, 11:44:59 AM »
The best players Rizzo acquired though this stretch were by taking best player available in the draft and by offering a then record setting contract - genius seems to be a stretch

Trading Matt Capps for Ramos and Langerhans for Morse were both pretty good.  I didn't like it at the time, but LaRoche also worked out as a free agent signing.  There were some moves he made in that time frame that filled major holes capably and that made a lot of difference.   It's just that it got ugly after the team got to playoff-caliber, unfortunately.

Online UMDNats

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4104: May 28, 2019, 11:51:29 AM »
Yeah, I'm not sure it takes a genius to draft Strasburg, Harper & Rendon, probably the 3 biggest "rebuild" players we acquired. He made plenty of shrewd moves early on in the rebuild but the last few years have been hit or miss.

His first big free agent deal (Werth) actually worked out OK for us but it also wasn't a genius move.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4105: May 28, 2019, 11:54:27 AM »

Is Rizzo bad at scouting and drafting, or is there a failure in either scouting or player development below him?


Well...who has Rizzo drafted lower than #6 overall, or a signing other than a Boras client for that matter, that has had a sustained success here? 

Looking at the number of guys that he drafted and sucked while they were here and after they were let go, or sucked while they were here and did well once they moved on, you have to blame scouting and player development.

I really don't think this organization has much of anything to hang it's hat on.  What has worked was either a gift or an inside job.  What didn't work seems to be the norm.

I'm waiting for the day that Andrew Stevenson wins the MVP...

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4106: May 28, 2019, 11:55:00 AM »
Trading Matt Capps for Ramos and Langerhans for Morse were both pretty good.  I didn't like it at the time, but LaRoche also worked out as a free agent signing.  There were some moves he made in that time frame that filled major holes capably and that made a lot of difference.   It's just that it got ugly after the team got to playoff-caliber, unfortunately.

Those seem like the kind of minor wins any gm who has been around as long as rizzo should have

Online UMDNats

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4107: May 28, 2019, 12:04:19 PM »
The fact that Rizzo is hailed as a genius pretty much says all you need to know about the state of the DC sports media.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4108: May 28, 2019, 12:06:07 PM »
Those seem like the kind of minor wins any gm who has been around as long as rizzo should have

AJ Preller has more trade wins than Rizzo.  Let that sink in.

Online mitlen

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4109: May 28, 2019, 12:07:30 PM »
The fact that Rizzo is hailed as a genius pretty much says all you need to know about the state of the DC sports media.

:spit:   ...  and team management in all local pro sports.

Offline dracnal

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4110: May 28, 2019, 12:07:50 PM »
He traded the guy currently lighting up guys for the Pissburgh Pirates for Mark Melancon which got him nowhere in the playoffs and lost him an electric lefty that would have been a very cheap closer, setup, or fireman.  The Eaton trade is likely going to go down as an L.  Not seeing what genius moves Rizzo's made.

To be fair - the first part of the season before the trade he was very effective. But he had the nickname 'Every day Felipe,' because he was used damn near every single day. By the point of the season where he got traded, his effectiveness had dropped off sharply. I don't think anyone complained much about the trade at the time.  But yes, if he hadn't been the go to horse and the only go to horse in the pen, we probably would have all raised hell.

It was a dumb move, but hindsight makes it easy to see that. That said, I'm worried we're doing the same crap to Doo and that he'll have a bounceback to form next year, pitching for someone else.

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4111: May 28, 2019, 10:26:55 PM »
The biggest indictment against Rizzo isnt that the pen sucks, it's that we're two months in and the only thing he's done to fix it is Javy Guerra

Offline rileyn

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4112: May 29, 2019, 06:29:37 AM »
It's going to be uncomfortable next week for Rizzo when Giolito faces Eaton.  Giolito is dominant right now.

Offline DCFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4113: May 29, 2019, 06:33:33 AM »
It's going to be uncomfortable next week for Rizzo when Giolito faces Eaton.  Giolito is dominant right now.

That's funny because there wasn't a person on this board who didn't applaud that trade and gloat over Giolito's struggles (then).

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4114: May 29, 2019, 06:38:28 AM »
That's funny because there wasn't a person on this board who didn't applaud that trade and gloat over Giolito's struggles (then).
Uh ... I actually thought the Nationals gave up too much. Or, more precisely, waited to long to move on Giolito. Rizzo effectively sold low on Lil Gio.

Offline DCFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4115: May 29, 2019, 06:45:52 AM »
Uh ... I actually thought the Nationals gave up too much. Or, more precisely, waited to long to move on Giolito. Rizzo effectively sold low on Lil Gio.

And here we go with the revisionist history.  :crackup:

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4116: May 29, 2019, 06:53:53 AM »
That's funny because there wasn't a person on this board who didn't applaud that trade and gloat over Giolito's struggles (then).

It’s funny that a bunch of random dudes is the yardstick used to validate someone paid millions to be correct about player analysis

Offline DCFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4117: May 29, 2019, 06:55:16 AM »
It’s funny that a bunch of random dudes is the yardstick used to validate someone paid millions to be correct about player analysis

What are you dense? This board is full of baseball experts. Look around.  :lol:

Online Count Walewski

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4118: May 29, 2019, 07:05:12 AM »
Notwithstanding Giolito's current sub-3.00 ERA, the Nationals would definitely have "won" the Eaton trade if Eaton wasn't injured two years in a row. You can't blame Rizzo for Eaton's bad luck.

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4119: May 29, 2019, 07:32:11 AM »
Notwithstanding Giolito's current sub-3.00 ERA, the Nationals would definitely have "won" the Eaton trade if Eaton wasn't injured two years in a row. You can't blame Rizzo for Eaton's bad luck.
This is such a big part of it. Even if Eaton produces at his ~3 WAR level those two seasons, that's definitely a fair trade. Now, it's clearly obvious Eaton has been hampered by the injuries.

Online Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4120: May 29, 2019, 09:07:43 AM »
Those seem like the kind of minor wins any gm who has been around as long as rizzo should have

I wouldn't call trading a reliever for six years of an above-average starting catcher on a minimum salary a minor win, but ok. 

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4121: May 29, 2019, 09:28:48 AM »
I wouldn't call trading a reliever for six years of an above-average starting catcher on a minimum salary a minor win, but ok. 

Sure, no one ever unloads relievers for fielders - it’s not like that’s a staple of deadline deals or anything

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4122: May 29, 2019, 09:40:25 AM »
Sure, no one ever unloads relievers for fielders - it’s not like that’s a staple of deadline deals or anything
How many are that successful?

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4123: May 29, 2019, 09:44:40 AM »
Capps for Ramos was awesome, not a minor win. It helped get the Twins GM fired

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4124: May 29, 2019, 09:47:27 AM »
How many are that successful?

How many of Rizzo’s were successful?