Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 198531 times)

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Offline NatsLSU

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3650: August 13, 2018, 11:52:57 PM »
Rizzo ignored more offense just like McPhee ignored more defense. Can’t wait til this clown is bounced from this club.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3651: August 13, 2018, 11:59:08 PM »
Rizzo ignored more offense just like McPhee ignored more defense. Can’t wait til this clown is bounced from this club.

Wait, what? Our offense sucked earlier this year but since the deadline our offense has overall been not the problem. The lineup is overall pretty solid right now.

Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3652: August 14, 2018, 12:34:58 AM »
Counting MAT as a "success." :lmao:

What one playoff series can do for a guy's reputation.

For a 6th round pick, he is.

Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3653: August 14, 2018, 01:07:06 AM »
It's funny how every bad decision the Nats make, it's leaked to the media - usually Heyman, a Boras-friendly reporter - that the Lerners were to blame. Weird!!!!

Also those guys you just listed are all complete turds. None are full-time MLB players. MAT has one acceptable season and 3.5 awful seasons. So he developed 2 fourth outfielders and AAAA arms? He doesn't get credit for Turner. I know he's traded a ton of guys away but I look at the Cardinals, Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox, Astros who find a stud in the 4th or 5th round here and there. We rely 100% on trades and free agency. Oh, and stumbling into Juan freaking Soto.

Again, not saying Rizzo is crappy, but his draft and development team is...mediocre at best.

Astros - non-1st round draft record since 2010 is flat garbage. Altuve was a shot in the dark signing, Springer was 11th overall and Correa was 1st overall. After that terrible.

Cardinals - non-1st rounders since 2010 have been nothing to write home about. A few decent finds and that's about it.

Cubs - Bryant/Schwarber/Happ/Almora/Baez were all top-10 overall picks. Rizzo was traded for. Other than that, horrible draft record going back to 2010.

Yankees - Have had 2 good and 1 "decent" draft picks going back to 2009. Judge was a 1st rounder in 2013, Adam Warren a 4th rounder in 2009. Greg Bird (jury is very much out on) was a 5th rounder in 2011. Other than them, garbage drafting for the last decade.

Red Sox - Benintendi (7th overall), Mookie Betts (5th rounder in 2011) and other than him their draft record rounds 2-10 is complete garbage going back to at least 2008.

Dodgers - Joc Pederson (11th rounder in 2010), Ross Stripling (5th rounder in 2012), and Cody Bellinger (4th rounder in 2013) are pretty much all the Dodgers have to show for their drafts (non-1st rounders) dating back to 2009.

The Nats draft record is not only very competitive with the rest of baseball but it has been one of the tops once you get past top-10 overall picks. As they say in baseball if you literally find 1 out of your 1st 10 picks each year you did a decent job. Rag on the Nats all you want, but the draft records of other top teams in baseball over the last decade is not very impressive.

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3654: August 14, 2018, 07:27:53 AM »
Rizzo ignored more offense just like McPhee ignored more defense. Can’t wait til this clown is bounced from this club.

:lmao: Are we here now? Are we just saying the dumbest thing possible?

Rizzo came into this season with four guys coming off .900+ OPS seasons and a shorstop hitting over .280 with over 40 stolen bases. On top of that, Rizzo added Matt Adams. Exactly how was the offense "ignored?"

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3655: August 14, 2018, 07:33:04 AM »
COTS recently updated their AAV payroll numbers based on in season moves. Rizzo has them $14m over the cap, ownership has to be pissed to have outspent everyone except the Red Sox just to get these results.

Offline blue911

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3656: August 14, 2018, 07:35:47 AM »
Rizzo's biggest failure has been his inability to convince ownership that the manager and coaching staff is important. 3 pitching coaches in 4 years is a recipe for disaster. Mike Maddux said that it takes a year for a pitching coach to get to know his staff and for them to have trust in what he's trying to accomplish. This is Dan Snyder level of stupidity.

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3657: August 14, 2018, 07:36:02 AM »
COTS recently updated their AAV payroll numbers based on in season moves. Rizzo has them $14m over the cap, ownership has to be pissed to have outspent everyone except the Red Sox just to get these results.
It's ownership's own fault for not selling when their GM told them to.

Online DCFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3658: August 14, 2018, 07:36:45 AM »
COTS recently updated their AAV payroll numbers based on in season moves. Rizzo has them $14m over the cap, ownership has to be pissed to have outspent everyone except the Red Sox just to get these results.

How so if Mark Lerner himself prevented the firesale?

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3659: August 14, 2018, 07:37:27 AM »
It's ownership's own fault for not selling when their GM told them to.

source?

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3660: August 14, 2018, 07:37:43 AM »
How so if Mark Lerner himself prevented the firesale?
Well, for one, owners never take the blame ...

Online DCFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3661: August 14, 2018, 07:40:33 AM »
Well, for one, owners never take the blame ...

Course not but the fans read his impassioned letter to them a few weeks ago.  So most of us realize that he took "ownership" of the current state of affairs with the team, its roster, and what we're stuck with for the rest of the year.

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3662: August 14, 2018, 08:07:28 AM »
That letter means nothing, after the deadline it tried to justify inaction, they didn't sell because they were still in the race they didn't buy because they were over the cap. No indication that individuals within the front office were pushing one way or the other. Media rumors were that Rizzo wanted to buy and Lerner wanted to sell. But in the end they did what I predicted, nothing, didn't throw more money at a lost cause, didn't drop out of contention long enough to include playoff invoices with the renewals.

Online DCFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3663: August 14, 2018, 08:31:16 AM »
That letter means nothing, after the deadline it tried to justify inaction, they didn't sell because they were still in the race they didn't buy because they were over the cap. No indication that individuals within the front office were pushing one way or the other. Media rumors were that Rizzo wanted to buy and Lerner wanted to sell. But in the end they did what I predicted, nothing, didn't throw more money at a lost cause, didn't drop out of contention long enough to include playoff invoices with the renewals.

PB, I love you man but you're dead wrong on this.  Jeff in Gaithersburg summed up nicely in the GDT last night;

This is on Mark Lerner for deciding to get his hands dirty and play amateur GM because he's obsessed about getting his father a title. He's undermining Rizzo and pressing GM buttons left and right out of desperation to make it happen and we end up with a clueless idiot as a manager and a coaching staff who the word "incompetent" is too nice a word for.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3664: August 14, 2018, 08:32:22 AM »
Rizzo built a team that contended for the playoffs every year from 2012 to 2017. That's half a decade. That's a respectable accomplishment that most GMs in the league have not accomplished. Rizzo was never truly in "win now" mode, his philosophy was always that he'd rather keep the playoff window longer than gamble on one particular year to win it all. Hence he never made the big blockbuster trades at the deadline. This was a deliberate strategic choice, and clearly the dice didn't roll his way but many of us would have made that same choice in 2012, there was solid logic behind it.

A friend of mine who's neutral about the NL East (a Yankees fan) tells me that Rizzo is overrated because drafting Harper, Strasburg, and Rendon were obvious choices that anyone could have made. I agree those were rather obvious picks, Rendon less so.

5 players were picked before Rendon. He was obvious because there was a fall off after the top 6 appeared significant at the time of the draft but there were injury concerns.

I get the Strasburg and Harper thing but extending it to Rendon is a stretch.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3665: August 14, 2018, 08:34:22 AM »
Rizzo's biggest failure has been his inability to convince ownership that the manager and coaching staff is important. 3 pitching coaches in 4 years is a recipe for disaster. Mike Maddux said that it takes a year for a pitching coach to get to know his staff and for them to have trust in what he's trying to accomplish. This is Dan Snyder level of stupidity.

Agreed, nice post as usual.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3666: August 14, 2018, 08:41:22 AM »
PB, I love you man but you're dead wrong on this.  Jeff in Gaithersburg summed up nicely in the GDT last night;


great source. We have no idea what's happening in the front office, so it must be the evil owners

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3667: August 14, 2018, 08:49:06 AM »
PB, I love you man but you're dead wrong on this.  Jeff in Gaithersburg summed up nicely in the GDT last night;


Different topics, I agree that Jeff is 100% right on Lerner being to blame for firing a successful manager and coaching staff, although Rizzo made things worse with a bad hire in Martinez.

Online mitlen

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3668: August 14, 2018, 09:07:26 AM »
DCFan:

PB, I love you man but you're dead wrong on this.  Jeff in Gaithersburg summed up nicely in the GDT last night;

Quote from: Jeff in Gaithersburg on Today at 01:21:50 AM
This is on Mark Lerner for deciding to get his hands dirty and play amateur GM because he's obsessed about getting his father a title. He's undermining Rizzo and pressing GM buttons left and right out of desperation to make it happen and we end up with a clueless idiot as a manager and a coaching staff who the word "incompetent" is too nice a word for.

If ya can play center field, being a General Manager has to be a snap.

Online DCFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3669: August 14, 2018, 10:44:11 AM »
If ya can play center field, being a General Manage has to be a snap.

Once the big C forced his "playing career" to an end he somehow managed (lucky gene pool) to land a job in the front office where he could expand beyond monitoring paper clip and copier paper orders to deciding on managerial hires and player personnel decisions even going over the GM's head when he wanted to. Ah that lucky gene pool. Never got to splash in THAT pool but no complaints of the one I was in. :mg:

Online aspenbubba

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3670: August 14, 2018, 10:54:41 AM »
Once the big C forced his "playing career" to an end he somehow managed (lucky gene pool) to land a job in the front office where he could expand beyond monitoring paper clip and copier paper orders to deciding on managerial hires and player personnel decisions even going over the GM's head when he wanted to. Ah that lucky gene pool. Never got to splash in THAT pool but no complaints of the one I was in. :mg:

Who is the big "C"?

Online DCFan

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3671: August 14, 2018, 11:00:53 AM »
Who is the big "C"?

The big C is cancer.

Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3672: August 15, 2018, 12:34:19 AM »
Different topics, I agree that Jeff is 100% right on Lerner being to blame for firing a successful manager and coaching staff, although Rizzo made things worse with a bad hire in Martinez.

In hindsight Martinez was definitely the wrong hire but have to keep in mind Rizzo's hiring options have been limited given the Lerners refusal to pay one what he's worth, which led to the Bud Black debacle. They saved face with the Dusty hire and he jumped at the low offer only because he was desperate to manage again and no other team had called him since the Reds broke him off. This is on Mark Lerner for calling shots he has no business calling. Yes he's the owner but have to let the GM make GM decisions and recognize the value of a quality manager. Clearly Mark doesn't.

Offline NatsLSU

  • Posts: 148
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3673: August 15, 2018, 01:00:28 AM »
:lmao: Are we here now? Are we just saying the dumbest thing possible?

Rizzo came into this season with four guys coming off .900+ OPS seasons and a shorstop hitting over .280 with over 40 stolen bases. On top of that, Rizzo added Matt Adams. Exactly how was the offense "ignored?"

I’m talking big picture throughout the years. It’s not the pitching that failed us in the playoffs. He failed to bolster the lineup with a player like a Cespedes. A game changer. You know dang well if this team had made it to the playoffs this year it would’ve been the same song and dance. They needed a shake up. That 23 run game also skews the numbers a little. Overall Rizzo has failed us year over year. We got burned by injuries on pitching this year but in the playoffs when it matters, our offense has come up short.

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3674: August 15, 2018, 01:12:40 AM »
I’m talking big picture throughout the years. It’s not the pitching that failed us in the playoffs. He failed to bolster the lineup with a player like a Cespedes. A game changer. You know dang well if this team had made it to the playoffs this year it would’ve been the same song and dance. They needed a shake up. That 23 run game also skews the numbers a little. Overall Rizzo has failed us year over year. We got burned by injuries on pitching this year but in the playoffs when it matters, our offense has come up short.

Wait wait wait..  CESPEDES?!!?! The guy who may not be able to start next season because of his bum ankles?

Rizzo went out and got this team Daniel Murphy.