Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 161766 times)

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Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3400: August 18, 2017, 04:19:31 PM »
How many current GMs can say this? Certainly not 15...

A pennant? Since he's been gm, about a dozen different teams have one

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3401: August 18, 2017, 04:36:35 PM »
A pennant? Since he's been gm, about a dozen different teams have one
You can't really count from the time since he's been a GM because the team he inherited wasn't supposed to have a shot in hell at being competitive until 2013.  2012 was a surprise season and a lot of people forget that.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3402: August 18, 2017, 04:40:44 PM »
2012 was a surprise season and a lot of people forget that.
2012 didn't surprise me much.  I feel like I saw it coming, based on what I saw in 2011 (including unloading Riggleman and getting Davey).  98 wins was more than I expected, but I did expect us to compete strongly for the division.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3403: August 18, 2017, 04:44:51 PM »
2012 didn't surprise me much.  I feel like I saw it coming, based on what I saw in 2011 (including unloading Riggleman and getting Davey).  98 wins was more than I expected, but I did expect us to compete strongly for the division.
The talk before 2012, for the most part, was that we might have an outside shot at a Wild Card but that the team needed another year to mature.  People generally agreed we were on pace to be really good but it was thought that it would take more time.  Gio had the best year of his career.  Morse really emerged as a force.  The bench all performed well above their career numbers and everything just kinda went right for that team.  Without a lot of that happening, we wouldn't have beaten the Braves for the division.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3404: August 18, 2017, 04:45:01 PM »
2012 didn't surprise me much.  I feel like I saw it coming, based on what I saw in 2011 (including unloading Riggleman and getting Davey).  98 wins was more than I expected, but I did expect us to compete strongly for the division.
I think you would be the exception. I don't recall much talk here or anywhere about the Nats contending in 2012. Most people I remember saying 2013 was the year they expected the Nats to break out. I certainly didn't expect it in 2012. Maybe that they'd be in contention for a Wild Card spot, but not the division and not certainly the best record in baseball.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3405: August 18, 2017, 04:46:45 PM »
I think you would be the exception. I don't recall much talk here or anywhere about the Nats contending in 2012. Most people I remember saying 2013 was the year they expected the Nats to break out. I certainly didn't expect it in 2012. Maybe that they'd be in contention for a Wild Card spot, but not the division and not certainly the best record in baseball.

Agreed...

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3406: August 18, 2017, 04:59:20 PM »
I think most Nats fans would have signed up for 4 division titles in six years. (No jinx fairies.) Obviously, some postseason success would be nice. I actually think this team can sneak up on people if they get healthy.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3407: August 18, 2017, 05:00:09 PM »
Here's the 2012 Prediction Thread. Chief set the o/u at 85. Most predicted in that range. A few went over. Only a couple went so far as to put us in first place.

Also, interestingly, Jon Heyman picked the Nats to win the division that year.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3408: August 18, 2017, 05:01:11 PM »
I think most Nats fans would have signed up for 4 division titles in six years. (No jinx fairies.) Obviously, some postseason success would be nice. I actually think this team can sneak up on people if they get healthy.
I don't think there's gonna be any sneaking. People that follow the game know just how good this team is/can be if Turner/Werth/Harper/Stras get back.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3409: August 18, 2017, 05:03:27 PM »
I don't think there's gonna be any sneaking. People that follow the game know just how good this team is/can be if Turner/Werth/Harper/Stras get back.

Werth isn't going to make any difference.  Turner may not either if Wilfo keeps it up...

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3410: August 18, 2017, 05:05:58 PM »
Werth isn't going to make any difference.  Turner may not either if Wilfo keeps it up...
Werth, whatever, we can (and will) debate that. That misses the larger point.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3411: August 18, 2017, 05:07:16 PM »
Here's the 2012 Prediction Thread. Chief set the o/u at 85. Most predicted in that range. A few went over. Only a couple went so far as to put us in first place.

Also, interestingly, Jon Heyman picked the Nats to win the division that year.
I wanted to see my prediction in that post but I only posted once and it was to take a shot at MDS.  Seems legit.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3412: August 18, 2017, 05:25:28 PM »
Here's the 2012 Prediction Thread. Chief set the o/u at 85. Most predicted in that range. A few went over. Only a couple went so far as to put us in first place.

Also, interestingly, Jon Heyman picked the Nats to win the division that year.

That was great reading.  Bloo picked the Nats to win 112 games and he was closer than half the prognosticators, only missing by 14.    :hysterical:

Examples - MDS had 79 wins  (19) and Halfsmoke had 83  (15 off)

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3413: August 18, 2017, 05:29:46 PM »
That was great reading.  Bloo picked the Nats to win 112 games and he was closer than half the prognosticators, only missing by 14.    :hysterical:

Examples - MDS had 79 wins  (19) and Halfsmoke had 83  (15 off)
My biggest thought scrolling through that was whatever happened to PatsNats?  He used to post all the time.

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3414: August 18, 2017, 07:45:25 PM »
The best pitcher on the 2012 team was Gio Gonzalez, acquired in a Rizzo trade.  The most productive bats were Zimmerman, Werth, Desmond, and Morse, two of whom were products of Rizzo's building.  The bullpen was largely assembled by Rizzo.  About half of the core had been assembled in the last two seasons since Rizzo had taken over.

So what? Who argued that Rizzo doesn't get credit for 2012? My point was that he took over a team that was poised to turn around, not some garbage heap as is often contended. In particular the lack of future payroll commitment along with an increased budget gave him enormous flexibility to get the guys he wanted. Most new GMs walk into a situation where nine figures is already spoken for in the next year alone.

It's easier to go from last place to a contender than from contender to champion.

Online rileyn

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3415: August 19, 2017, 07:33:21 AM »
It’s insane that this discussion is even being had. Rizzo would be hired immediately by another team if the Lerners canned him.
I can only assume that the folks questioning Rizzo's abilities are doing to be contrarian and generate conversation. 

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3416: August 19, 2017, 07:43:08 AM »
I can only assume that the folks questioning Rizzo's abilities are doing to be contrarian and generate conversation. 

Contrary to the crowd crowning Rizzo as one of the best in baseball after nine years of running a high payroll team with no playoff success. I'd agree with better than average but not one of the best; hope to revisit that assessment in a couple months.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3417: August 19, 2017, 08:00:33 AM »
Contrary to the crowd crowning Rizzo as one of the best in baseball after nine years of running a high payroll team with no playoff success. I'd agree with better than average but not one of the best; hope to revisit that assessment in a couple months.

Come on, he has not been running a high-payroll team for nine years.

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3418: August 19, 2017, 08:45:20 AM »
Come on, he has not been running a high-payroll team for nine years.

Sure, he had a young team with players under team control. But he was immediately given draft money to spend, and then the Werth contract seven years ago started the sharp increase that has continued through this season.

Online rileyn

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3419: August 19, 2017, 08:53:57 AM »
Contrary to the crowd crowning Rizzo as one of the best in baseball after nine years of running a high payroll team with no playoff success. I'd agree with better than average but not one of the best; hope to revisit that assessment in a couple months.
Good point.  I hope Rizzo comes through in the clutch with a couple hits with RISP this postseason. 

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3420: August 19, 2017, 09:14:18 AM »
 :idiot:
Good point.  I hope Rizzo comes through in the clutch with a couple hits with RISP this postseason.
:idiot:

Typical fanboi thinking. Team wins a playoff series and it's Rizzo's crowning day; team bows out and it is the players' fault, even though Rizzo assembled them.

Offline 3bside

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3421: August 19, 2017, 10:11:22 AM »
Rizzo was assistant GM for two years under Bowden, and he was pretty much the chief scout.  So he had a big role in the turnaround that started under Bowden, including drafting Z'mann.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3422: August 19, 2017, 11:03:55 AM »
I want to give a raise to whoever is running the Nats operation in South America. I just assumed we would scuttle it after the Bowden fiasco. Difo, Severino, Robles, Bautista, and a handful of arms used in trades. Nats getting a lot past few years.

Offline whytev

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3423: August 19, 2017, 07:59:01 PM »
I want to give a raise to whoever is running the Nats operation in South America. I just assumed we would scuttle it after the Bowden fiasco. Difo, Severino, Robles, Bautista, and a handful of arms used in trades. Nats getting a lot past few years.

Are all those guys Dominican? If so, well done, but what are we missing elsewhere?

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3424: August 19, 2017, 08:01:54 PM »
We're moving towards respectable - major league filler and prospects isn't near what better systems get out of international markets