Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 159566 times)

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Offline PatsNats28

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #225: August 03, 2011, 06:53:09 PM »
The Bourn trade for them was all about getting quality farm system prospects. Not guys who will turn in to All Stars, but guys who will be good role players.

Detwiler would have been the biggest name there. The rest would have been straight minor leaguers.

Detwiler, Norris and another pitching prospect should have been enough

freak no. People are overrating Bourn here - it'd be like if we traded for Beltran. We have to look beyond just next year - I'm not supporting the "two years from now" idea but I'm just saying that we have to look for guys who fit short and long term.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #226: August 03, 2011, 07:01:39 PM »
:lmao: @ slateman


Hah

It was ridiculous to begin with.  If anything, this board is filled with 'shiners.  Just look at the "do you want Rizzo fired" poll.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #227: August 03, 2011, 07:39:43 PM »
:lmao: @ slateman

Yea, sometimes the board gets the better of me.

But to be fair, I was being bitter and angry, not negative. Its completely different

 :lol:


Bourn's agent is Boras, he's almost certainly going to test the free agent waters at the end of 2012. 

Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper are both Boras' clients. So I guess we can kiss them goodbye in 2013 and 2015, huh? And Jayson Werth is a Scott Boras client too. I think if the Lerners are serious, they can make a deal.





freak no. People are overrating Bourn here - it'd be like if we traded for Beltran. We have to look beyond just next year - I'm not supporting the "two years from now" idea but I'm just saying that we have to look for guys who fit short and long term.

Except we'd have him for a year and a half, versus the rest of the season like Beltran. And his contract is more than reasonable. Oh, and if you go by WAR, Bourn is a better player.



Hah

It was ridiculous to begin with.  If anything, this board is filled with 'shiners.  Just look at the "do you want Rizzo fired" poll.

Whats a "shiner?"  :D


Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #228: August 03, 2011, 07:47:20 PM »
Lol. I still think next year we are in a playoff race in September.

In Potomac or Harrisburg?  :?

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #229: August 03, 2011, 07:49:04 PM »
Hah

It was ridiculous to begin with.  If anything, this board is filled with 'shiners.  Just look at the "do you want Rizzo fired" poll.

I think that was in part a    to Superfan37.  :lol:

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #230: August 03, 2011, 07:51:45 PM »

Whats a "shiner?"  :D


A member of the Sunshine Squad. They walk on sunshine even though most of the time the Nats are the jerk of baseball and we know the sun don't shine in that region. They usually come out of the jerk when the Nats go on a mini winning streak to brag about what great fans they are for being positive and how awful we are by accusing the Legion of Doom of pulling against the Nats.


Offline TylerDC

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #231: August 03, 2011, 07:58:10 PM »
In Potomac or Harrisburg?  :?

Lol.

But yeah.. Bourn should be a National. I honestly don't think he's overrated at all.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #232: August 03, 2011, 08:05:46 PM »
A member of the Sunshine Squad. They walk on sunshine even though most of the time the Nats are the jerk of baseball and we know the sun don't shine in that region. They usually come out of the jerk when the Nats go on a mini winning streak to brag about what great fans they are for being positive and how awful we are by accusing the Legion of Doom of pulling against the Nats.

(Image removed from quote.)

So, in other words, those of us who have hope for the future? :lol:

Offline PatsNats28

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #233: August 03, 2011, 08:24:39 PM »
Except we'd have him for a year and a half, versus the rest of the season like Beltran. And his contract is more than reasonable. Oh, and if you go by WAR, Bourn is a better player.

I know, but it's not like we're going to win 90 games next year. So the difference isn't that significant.

And FanGraphs has Beltran at 3.7 WAR and Bourn at 3.4...

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #234: August 03, 2011, 08:38:38 PM »
I know, but it's not like we're going to win 90 games next year. So the difference isn't that significant.

And FanGraphs has Beltran at 3.7 WAR and Bourn at 3.4...
Baseball Reference has his at 4.3

Offline welch

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #235: August 03, 2011, 10:12:14 PM »
Lol. I still think next year we are in a playoff race in September.

I agree...and I try to be realistic even while hoping. The team just seems more stable and getting better. Of course, once they stop Zimmermann and, all at once, the only reliable starting pitchers are Lannan and Livo, it might feel gloomy.

Offline BerkeleyNat

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #236: August 03, 2011, 10:31:44 PM »
I agree...and I try to be realistic even while hoping. The team just seems more stable and getting better. Of course, once they stop Zimmermann and, all at once, the only reliable starting pitchers are Lannan and Livo, it might feel gloomy.

September could be a rough month for us, but you're right....things are looking better for next season. I thinks it's possible that we could be in the WC race in September 2012. We need to stabilize the rotation. Go with Strasburg, C.J. Wilson, JZ, Lannan, and one of the young guys at 5. We might be pretty decent with that rotation. Also, let's hope that they address the CF position in the offseason.

Offline panthers30

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #237: August 03, 2011, 11:09:28 PM »
freak no. People are overrating Bourn here - it'd be like if we traded for Beltran. We have to look beyond just next year - I'm not supporting the "two years from now" idea but I'm just saying that we have to look for guys who fit short and long term.

Lol we're overrating Bourn the same way people here overrate our prospects.  Bourn is a gold glove CFer hitting over .300 that can steal bases at will.  Detwiler is a back end starter at his best and Norris, while promising, is in AA(and struggling pretty badly there).  Plus, he's blocked by Ramos.  He will be traded eventually, and we just passed up the opportunity to get a guy that could spark a pathetic offense.

If they asked for guys like Cole/Lombardozzi/Storen/Peacock/etc, I would fully understand and agree with saying no.. but no, they asked for nothing and we refused.  Dumbass move by Rizzo.  Really dumb.

edit - and I can't speak for others, but I am SICK of waiting for next year every single season to compete.  If adding Bourn finally gives us a winning season, freaking do it.  It's not like losing Detwiler/Norris is going to set us back years.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #238: August 03, 2011, 11:27:57 PM »
Lol we're overrating Bourn the same way people here overrate our prospects.  Bourn is a gold glove CFer hitting over .300 that can steal bases at will.  Detwiler is a back end starter at his best and Norris, while promising, is in AA(and struggling pretty badly there). Plus, he's blocked by Ramos.  He will be traded eventually, and we just passed up the opportunity to get a guy that could spark a pathetic offense.

If they asked for guys like Cole/Lombardozzi/Storen/Peacock/etc, I would fully understand and agree with saying no.. but no, they asked for nothing and we refused. Dumbass move by Rizzo.  Really dumb.

you have the exact figures the astros asked for?

interesting

Offline panthers30

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #239: August 03, 2011, 11:57:13 PM »
you have the exact figures the astros asked for?

interesting


I'm going by what was reported.  I find it hard to believe they'd ask for so little, so take it for what it's worth.

However, if they did ask for Detwiler & Norris, you take that trade without hesitation.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #240: August 04, 2011, 08:06:46 AM »
Only one beat reporter reported this suppossed deal for a reason. If the pruposed deal that the Nats turned down was Detwiler and Norris or Detwiler and Bernadina then the package the Braves offered wins. I am also certain other teams would ask for better prospects from the Nats than they would the Braves. The Nats farm system just doesn't have the luster.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #241: August 04, 2011, 08:22:11 AM »
Is this going into the same category as the Greinke trade for reasons why Rizzo should be fired?

It didn't happen and we may never know the proposed deal.  All we know is that it look slike the Braves got a good deal and the Astros got hosed again.

Offline blue911

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #242: August 04, 2011, 08:23:22 AM »
Only one beat reporter reported this suppossed deal for a reason. If the pruposed deal that the Nats turned down was Detwiler and Norris or Detwiler and Bernadina then the package the Braves offered wins. I am also certain other teams would ask for better prospects from the Nats than they would the Braves. The Nats farm system just doesn't have the luster.

Exactly my thinking. People nag about how all of Yankees prospects are overrated but isn't that also part of Brian Cashman's job? If Ladson was told that Detwiler was the deal killer, I would look deeper into why this information was leaked out of a front office that is noted for it's secrecy.  This smacks of Davey Johnson pulling his vulcan mind meld to pump up Detwiler's confidence.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #243: August 04, 2011, 08:25:07 AM »
Is this going into the same category as the Greinke trade for reasons why Rizzo should be fired?

It didn't happen and we may never know the proposed deal.  All we know is that it look slike the Braves got a good deal and the Astros got hosed again.

For some people everything will be a reason to fire Rizzo. He has his faults, but he does have a vision for the team and it would be nice to see what the finished product looks like before passing judgment.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #244: August 04, 2011, 08:27:51 AM »
Exactly my thinking. People nag about how all of Yankees prospects are overrated but isn't that also part of Brian Cashman's job? If Ladson was told that Detwiler was the deal killer, I would look deeper into why this information was leaked out of a front office that is noted for it's secrecy.  This smacks of Davey Johnson pulling his vulcan mind meld to pump up Detwiler's confidence.



Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #245: August 04, 2011, 08:33:00 AM »
Exactly my thinking. People nag about how all of Yankees prospects are overrated but isn't that also part of Brian Cashman's job? If Ladson was told that Detwiler was the deal killer, I would look deeper into why this information was leaked out of a front office that is noted for it's secrecy.  This smacks of Davey Johnson pulling his vulcan mind meld to pump up Detwiler's confidence.


Seriously? No one has respected the Yankees farm system in years. In fact, this is the first year in forever they're more than one or two players deep in decent prospects.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #246: August 04, 2011, 08:36:30 AM »
Seriously? No one has respected the Yankees farm system in years. In fact, this is the first year in forever they're more than one or two players deep in decent prospects.

What, you don't respect ESPN's ability to put hype where it is deserved?

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #247: August 04, 2011, 09:05:13 AM »
So, in other words, those of us who have hope for the future? :lol:

I have hope for the future but I don't sugar-coat everything like some of the shills around here.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #248: August 04, 2011, 09:12:25 AM »
What, you don't respect ESPN's ability to put hype where it is deserved?
I can't remember a single time when they've done this. The Yankees farm system has been bare for the past five years. Robinson Cano was the last thing that came out of the Yankees farm system of any worth.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #249: August 04, 2011, 09:14:22 AM »
He has his faults, but he does have a vision for the team and it would be nice to see what the finished product looks like before passing judgment.

my guess is like this