Author Topic: So I Guess Cliff Lee is NOT the Secomd Coming of Sandy Koufax, Huh  (Read 442 times)

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Offline RL04

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Gee, what a surprise.

It just kills me.  And I hate all this "playoff record" or "post season record" stuff.  There were no playoffs then!  Just the World Series.

How low do you think Koufax's ERA would have been if he got to pitch against Wild Card teams?

In the 1965 Series, Koufax gave up one run (after an error) in three games ... the third game after only two days rest.

When Lee does that, give me a call.


Offline GMUNat

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Cliff Lee has pitched more innings in teh playoffs than Koufax and has done it in a tougher era. That is more impressive.

Offline CALSGR8

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Every pitcher loses occasionally.

Offline PANatsFan

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Offline Kevrock

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Maybe when Lee loses two more World Series games he'll be Koufax?

Offline Sharp

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If you look at the period when Lee played his stats are a little less impressive.  Same with Gibson... they both pitched during a very dominant pitching era.  Not trying to take anything away from either of them of course.

As for Lee... he's still really damn good.  The Giants were just zoned in/lucky that night.  The balls Cliff was "leaving up" look bad compared to his previous start, but that's because his previous start he basically had Rivera-like control.  Most of them were pretty near the corners, and at least one of the doubles was on a perfectly placed pitch.  It's just the usual second-guessing and "hindsight is twenty-twenty" thing.  I know for a fact that a ton of our pitchers leave balls up and none of them have a BABIP above .500.  Of course, we don't have Guerrero playing in RF either.

Offline tomterp

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If you look at the period when Lee played his stats are a little less impressive.  Same with Gibson... they both pitched during a very dominant pitching era.  Not trying to take anything away from either of them of course.

Do you mean Koufax?

'65 Twins were second in team batting*, though the Reds were going away #1.  Still, with 3 top 30 hitters - Versailles, Oliva, and Killebrew, this was a strong lineup to face.

Quote
*Based on MLVr.  MLVr is a rate-based version of Marginal Lineup Value (MLV), a measure of offensive production created by David Tate and further developed by Keith Woolner. MLV is an estimate of the additional number of runs a given player will contribute to a lineup that otherwise consists of average offensive performers.

Online HalfSmokes

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He's a bum, hopefully we don't sign him.

That aside, with the number of post season innings he's pitched, he was due for a blow up- there is no such thing as the perfect pitcher

Offline Sharp

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Do you mean Koufax?

'65 Twins were second in team batting*, though the Reds were going away #1.  Still, with 3 top 30 hitters - Versailles, Oliva, and Killebrew, this was a strong lineup to face.

Yup, I meant Koufax.  And obviously he was an extremely good pitcher--I'm not trying to downplay his accomplishments at all.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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He's a bum, hopefully we don't sign him.

That aside, with the number of post season innings he's pitched, he was due for a blow up- there is no such thing as the perfect pitcher

It'll be interesting to see when he drops off.  He's at 736.1 IP in three years now.  For all the talk about only three good years he actually had a good 2005.  06 was solid, 07 was a disaster with the abdominal injury, and then the last three years have just been phenomenal.  I'd still break the bank for him and hope for 3 more dominant years and another 1-2 good ones.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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No one believes me, but at the time of his struggles... I think his kid was also very sick with leukemia.

I've never found anything in writing to back up that theory... but I swear I was watching an Indians broadcast back in '07 and they were talking about how Cliff wasn't pitching well in-part due to the worries of his child's health.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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No one believes me, but at the time of his struggles... I think his kid was also very sick with leukemia.

I've never found anything in writing to back up that theory... but I swear I was watching an Indians broadcast back in '07 and they were talking about how Cliff wasn't pitching well in-part due to the worries of his child's health.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060510&content_id=1446992&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

This article mentions his son expected to be pronounced fully healthy in Feb 07.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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I think he had some sort of relapse during the '07 season, but has since recovered.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Lee went undrafted in our 2008 AL fantasy draft because no one would take a chance on him.  Shows what kind of an idiot I am as well as the guys I play with.  Someone did have an eye on him and picked him up immediately after the draft as an injury replacement.