Author Topic: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority  (Read 44847 times)

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #950: November 28, 2010, 05:26:03 PM »
Marlins management is crazy.  Trade Uggla and sign Vazquez, real smart.   :crazy:

Offline JMW IV

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #951: November 28, 2010, 05:34:24 PM »
Marlins management is crazy.  Trade Uggla and sign Vazquez, real smart.   :crazy:

explain how Justin Upton = Elijah Dukes.

http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,20677.msg660564.html#msg660564

Offline The Chief

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #952: November 29, 2010, 11:08:25 AM »
Discussion of MLB financials and other off-topic chatter has been split off and moved to the out of town section:

http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,20724.0.html

Offline GMUNat

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #953: November 29, 2010, 12:35:20 PM »
A 1 year no trade clause isn't a big deal. I guarantee you that Vasquez would have been the ace on the Nationals if he signed here.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #954: November 29, 2010, 12:35:36 PM »
De La Rosa scares me. He has never pitched 200 innings, has a very high career ERA, and wants Derek Lowe money.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #955: November 29, 2010, 12:42:19 PM »
De La Rosa scares me. He has never pitched 200 innings, has a very high career ERA, and wants Derek Lowe money.

two words: Carlos Silva

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #956: November 29, 2010, 12:51:54 PM »
two words: Carlos Silva

I used to say I told you so on that one, but he was good last season.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #957: November 29, 2010, 01:32:07 PM »
I used to say I told you so on that one, but he was good last season.

Yes but not for the team that signed him. The Mariners ended up with Milton Bradley.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #958: November 29, 2010, 01:53:42 PM »
two words: Carlos Silva

If you ignore every single peripheral stat, you know silly little predictive things like K/9, then there's some minor comparison between the two.  Otherwise you've got a pitch to contact RHP who benefited from a good defense in Minnesota compared to a power K LHP who put up very good stats in a horrible pitching park in Colorado.  But, other than being completely different types of pitchers coming from completely different situations, they're exactly the same.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #959: November 29, 2010, 01:57:15 PM »
I guarantee you that Vasquez would have been the ace on the Nationals if he signed here.

He would have been the ace until he wasn't. About two starts.  Just like Marquis was the ace in 2010 until he wasn't.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #960: November 29, 2010, 01:58:37 PM »
If you ignore every single peripheral stat, you know silly little predictive things like K/9, then there's some minor comparison between the two.  Otherwise you've got a pitch to contact RHP who benefited from a good defense in Minnesota compared to a power K LHP who put up very good stats in a horrible pitching park in Colorado.  But, other than being completely different types of pitchers coming from completely different situations, they're exactly the same.

is bb/9 no longer predictive?

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #961: November 29, 2010, 01:58:51 PM »
Lol.  Reminds me of band of brothers "Ey George doesn't this remind you of bastogne."

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #962: November 29, 2010, 02:15:46 PM »
As a Rockie he averaged 145 innings, a 4.49 ERA, 2.17 K/BB, 104 ERA+, and 1.315 WHIP. This is worse than what Pavano did in the last two years and all indications are that Pavano would be cheaper and shorter term. There is a reason the Pirates, Orioles, and Nationals are the only teams interested in De La Rosa.

Offline imref

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #963: November 29, 2010, 03:00:46 PM »
One thing strange about De La Rosa, he had a 4.10 ERA and home and a 4.36 ERA on the road.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #964: November 29, 2010, 03:00:48 PM »
Let's see...08 started with the Royals in AAA, one full season, and this year he was excellent after injury.  You're going to bring up average IP and ignore that he came up late in 08 and had 5 bullpen appearances as well?

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12408&mode=print&nocache=1290034180

I think tomterp referenced this before but it shows the fairly solid comparison of De La Rosa to Sanchez.  The difference is De La Rosa's 3 years are better than Sanchez's to start with.  At 29 he's a good chance to take.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #965: November 29, 2010, 03:06:25 PM »
Agreed.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #966: November 29, 2010, 03:10:07 PM »
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosajo01.shtml

I am sorry but baseball-reference doesn't qualify their innings pitched with injury or spending time in the minors.

I would like to have De La Rosa, but not for 4/$60. His value should be somewhere around 3/$33.   

Offline GMUNat

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #967: November 29, 2010, 03:12:27 PM »
Jorge de la Rosa has never been "good" other than possibly 2009. Maybe above average, but never good. Coors Field wasn't the reason he had an average year last year. He had a 4.10 ERA at Coors and 4.36 ERA away from Coors.

Offline CatsEye

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #968: November 29, 2010, 03:22:10 PM »
    I don't see too many #1 starters out there -Cliff Lee is not going to come here. The pickings are slim....so in a slim season of choices for experienced starter pitchers, I think you need to go international -and start looking in other countries.  Anybody see some outstanding starter pitchers out there in Japan, Korea,or ?, that would fit the bill that Rizzo is looking for....

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #969: November 29, 2010, 03:27:58 PM »
    I don't see too many #1 starters out there -Cliff Lee is not going to come here. The pickings are slim....so in a slim season of choices for experienced starter pitchers, I think you need to go international -and start looking in other countries.  Anybody see some outstanding starter pitchers out there in Japan, Korea,or ?, that would fit the bill that Rizzo is looking for....

We have Maya who is having a really good run in the Dominican right now.  Rizzo will sign or trade unless the price is just ridiculous.  There's still a handful of good #2 types via FA or trade and 2 #1's (Lee, Greinke, Shields/Garza, Floyd, Pavano, De La Rosa).  6 potential options and 4 of them are probably viable.

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #970: November 29, 2010, 03:39:17 PM »
We have Maya who is having a really good run in the Dominican right now.  Rizzo will sign or trade unless the price is just ridiculous.  There's still a handful of good #2 types via FA or trade and 2 #1's (Lee, Greinke, Shields/Garza, Floyd, Pavano, De La Rosa).  6 potential options and 4 of them are probably viable.

As much as I like Yunesky Maya, as much as I think he'll be a reasonably successful starter, and as happy as I am to cheer for his career, I really do think he'd profit from a couple months at Syracuse.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #971: November 29, 2010, 03:40:40 PM »
As much as I like Yunesky Maya, as much as I think he'll be a reasonably successful starter, and as happy as I am to cheer for his career, I really do think he'd profit from a couple months at Syracuse.

He was injured, tired, and rushed last season. Agreed...

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #972: November 29, 2010, 03:46:45 PM »
As much as I like Yunesky Maya, as much as I think he'll be a reasonably successful starter, and as happy as I am to cheer for his career, I really do think he'd profit from a couple months at Syracuse.

Absolutely.  I still want Maya and Detwiler heading up the Syracuse rotation to start the season.  That requires grabbing one of the good SP remaining and slotting them at the front of the rotation with JZ/Lannan/Marquis/Livan following.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #973: November 29, 2010, 03:48:21 PM »
He was injured, tired, and rushed last season. Agreed...

I don't understand how he was any of those things. He had a year lay-off from baseball so how could he be tired, the injury would be news to me unless you are calling a blister an injury, and as far as rushed he only pitched September so it was either majors or nothing. Still don't disagree with the idea of having him start at AAA and being the first call-up in case of injury or failure. But right now I think he is in the majors without a signing or a trade. Zimmermann, Lannan, Marquis, Hernandez, Maya, Detwiler, Atilano, Mock, Stammen, Chico, Solis is probably the pitching depth chart right now.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Rizzo: #1 starter is Nats priority
« Reply #974: November 29, 2010, 03:51:40 PM »
Tired as in lack of endurance from not being built up to pitching the normal way?

I'd amend that depth list just a little, slot Milone in ahead of Solis and punt Atilano behind all of them, but that's still not far off.  Amazing how Shairon Martis just fell off the planet (not that he was actually good in the first place).