Author Topic: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2  (Read 12027 times)

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Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #175: September 28, 2010, 10:01:25 PM »
Thanks Sharp.
No problem... this is how I see things anyway.  IMO our lineup's biggest problem, by far, is our atrocious BB/K ratio.  If people think that's Eckstein's fault then we should definitely be investigating in acquiring a new hitting coach.  In most other offensive categories we are on the lower end of average--bad enough that nobody would mistake us for a "good" offensive team, but not so bad that people openly mock us or we lose a lot of well-pitched games.  With a good rotation we probably wouldn't even notice our offensive struggles.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #176: September 28, 2010, 10:04:25 PM »
PLEASE SOMEONE GIF LANNAN WAVING BEHIND MARQUIS.

Storen, get on it NOW!

[PANatsFan] Lannan sucks, get one just of Marquis [/PaNatsFan] 8)

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #177: September 28, 2010, 10:06:04 PM »
[PANatsFan] Lannan sucks, get one just of Marquis [/PaNatsFan] 8)

Truth

Offline JMW IV

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #178: September 28, 2010, 10:11:00 PM »
[nationals] dunn sucks @ defense ... carlos pena hit a home run tonight too ... we need to go for a cheaper, younger option [/nationals]

Pena is 2 years older....

Offline JMW IV

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #179: September 28, 2010, 10:19:59 PM »
people are giving Ladson so much crap right now lol.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #180: September 28, 2010, 10:25:19 PM »
Wait... just read an interview where Sean Burnett said he pitches to contact?  He has over a strikeout an inning!

Offline spidernat

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #181: September 28, 2010, 10:28:40 PM »
[nationals] dunn sucks @ defense ... carlos pena hit a home run tonight too ... we need to go for a cheaper, younger option [/nationals]

Isn't Dunn younger than Peña?

Online nats2playoffs

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #182: September 28, 2010, 10:33:41 PM »
PLEASE SOMEONE GIF LANNAN WAVING BEHIND MARQUIS.

Storen, get on it NOW!


I TOLD you that Lannan's future is as a silent movie star...


Offline PC

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #183: September 28, 2010, 10:35:03 PM »

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #184: September 28, 2010, 10:49:00 PM »
Two years, at least.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #185: September 28, 2010, 10:51:46 PM »
Obviously he can only pitch to the lineup in front of him, but most of his victims were not exactly batting threats.  And I try not to allow a single game to influence how I feel about any pitcher, which unfortunately means I have to remember that two starts ago Marquis couldn't get out of the first inning, that his overall season here has been a disaster and he hasn't been great since his return, and that in his career Marquis has been a very low-strikeout, 4.50-ish ERA kind of guy.

Oh, for the record, I was being sarcastic with this post :lol: but tonight he proved me wrong. To bad he couldn't do this for a month.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #186: September 28, 2010, 10:52:41 PM »
How many people got a huge thrill from that walkoff? Awesome moment :woop:

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #187: September 28, 2010, 10:52:50 PM »
Isn't Dunn younger than Peña?

i'm just being sarcastic

Offline Galah

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #188: September 28, 2010, 11:12:34 PM »
How many people got a huge thrill from that walkoff? Awesome moment :woop:

Great night to be at the ball park, Nyjer with the BB, steal 2nd, get third on an error and sacrifice to get him home, Marquis with 7 ks, Clip and Store to finish and Dunn with just a massive hit!

..and a heck of a lot more Nats fans than last night.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #189: September 28, 2010, 11:27:24 PM »
marquis and lannan have given us rays of hope for next year, but again, they are end of the rotation type starters.  would like to see us make a play in free agency (or trade), to go along with extending dunn and fetching crawford/werth.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #190: September 28, 2010, 11:36:56 PM »
Jason Marquis is an atrocious human being and an even worse pitcher.  Please don't look at the facts on this one or you may have to admit the injury was the only downside to this signing.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #191: September 28, 2010, 11:40:44 PM »
Seriously our rotation is so freaking crappy, it is unbelievable that we expect to win with the starters we put out 3 nights of every 5.

Marquis.  5 of last 7 QS.  1 of the other 2 was 5.2 IP and the other was the night when our brilliant manager shifted the defense to play the pull on every at bat while our "HOF" catcher called every freaking pitch away and the Phils hit 132 groundballs right up the middle where there was no defense.

Yeah, the starting staff is horrible and Marquis is the worst of the bunch.

It wouldn't be so sad if the evidence wasn't trending strongly against it over the last month.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #192: September 28, 2010, 11:40:55 PM »
Jason Marquis is an atrocious human being and an even worse pitcher.  Please don't look at the facts on this one or you may have to admit the injury was the only downside to this signing.

The Weekly World News reports that Marquis gave rabies to Batboy.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #193: September 28, 2010, 11:55:06 PM »
Marquis.  5 of last 7 QS.  1 of the other 2 was 5.2 IP and the other was the night when our brilliant manager shifted the defense to play the pull on every at bat while our "HOF" catcher called every freaking pitch away and the Phils hit 132 groundballs right up the middle where there was no defense.

Yeah, the starting staff is horrible and Marquis is the worst of the bunch.

It wouldn't be so sad if the evidence wasn't trending strongly against it over the last month.
My contention is that Marquis is likely to be a 4.50-5.00 ERA pitcher next season and that doesn't cut it for me, especially with what we're paying him.  When he is on the mound I do not expect this team to win.  I think it's funny that you're still blaming his most recent horrible outing on Pudge, but that's neither here nor there.  Livo has a ton of quality starts this season--way more than Marquis--and I still don't expect him to be a great pitcher next year.  Hell, Ubaldo was untouchable at the All Star Break (15 wins and a low-2's ERA) and right now he has an ERA over 4.00 and has just one last chance at 20 wins.  Which is to say that "5 of his last seven games were quality starts" means very little to me, especially when one of them was one of the worst outings of any starter this year and his overall peripherals aren't good.  Going into 2011, we currently have three, possibly four starters vying for "back end of the rotation" status and one potential number two.  Is that acceptable to you?  It isn't to me.

None of that takes away from this game, BTW, but please be realistic.  Straight up, what kind of numbers do you think Marquis will post next year?  If you expect an ERA under 4.00 (what would be necessary for me to possibly consider his signing a net positive after what he did this year) I'll be shocked.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #194: September 29, 2010, 12:11:55 AM »
My contention is that Marquis is likely to be a 4.50-5.00 ERA pitcher next season and that doesn't cut it for me, especially with what we're paying him.  When he is on the mound I do not expect this team to win.  I think it's funny that you're still blaming his most recent horrible outing on Pudge, but that's neither here nor there.  Livo has a ton of quality starts this season--way more than Marquis--and I still don't expect him to be a great pitcher next year.  Hell, Ubaldo was untouchable at the All Star Break (15 wins and a low-2's ERA) and right now he has an ERA over 4.00 and has just one last chance at 20 wins.  Which is to say that "5 of his last seven games were quality starts" means very little to me, especially when one of them was one of the worst outings of any starter this year and his overall peripherals aren't good.  Going into 2011, we currently have three, possibly four starters vying for "back end of the rotation" status and one potential number two.  Is that acceptable to you?  It isn't to me.

None of that takes away from this game, BTW, but please be realistic.  Straight up, what kind of numbers do you think Marquis will post next year?  If you expect an ERA under 4.00 (what would be necessary for me to possibly consider his signing a net positive after what he did this year) I'll be shocked.

I couldn't care less about ERA.  I'm interested in stats that actually measure what the pitcher does like K/9, K/BB, FIP etc.

You also said Livan is turning back into a pumpkin.  Since the start of August he has the following results:  QS, QS, QS, QS, bad start, bad start, bad start, QS, QS, bad start, QS.

That's 3 of the last 4 QS and 7 of the last 11 from a guy who got a 1 year, 1m extension.

I'll leave the sky is falling garbage to those who seem to do nothing but ignore the actual numbers.

The last month plus has seen JZ return from injury (his only truly bad stat has been HR/9), Lannan pitch better than any 2 month stretch in his career, Livan continue to be a solid SP, and Marquis getting better nearly every start.  That's four guys who should be part of the rotation next season, along with a FA or trade, with Detwiler and Maya starting the year in AAA and being ready whenever performance or injury requires it.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #195: September 29, 2010, 12:12:45 AM »
Nobody's going to mention 68 wins?

Offline The Hammer

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #196: September 29, 2010, 12:15:29 AM »
Jason Marquis is an atrocious human being and an even worse pitcher.  Please don't look at the facts on this one or you may have to admit the injury was the only downside to this signing.
Marquis has a 1.51 WHIP and a 27-23 K:BB+HBP ratio or a .371 OBP allowed, but don't let the facts get in the away. If John Lannan had a game where he allowed 4 BB and 1 K or 3 BB and 1 K with 2 HR, you would call him a AA pitcher. But in your bizarro world where you twist facts then run away when confronted, it's a great start. Tell me what is so great about his 1.51 WHIP since returning.

Offline chemist

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #197: September 29, 2010, 12:15:49 AM »
sign both dunn and werth tomorrow night and I'll buy a plane ticket from SD to NY for the finale.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #198: September 29, 2010, 12:17:49 AM »
I couldn't care less about ERA.  I'm interested in stats that actually measure what the pitcher does like K/9, K/BB, FIP etc.

You also said Livan is turning back into a pumpkin.  Since the start of August he has the following results:  QS, QS, QS, QS, bad start, bad start, bad start, QS, QS, bad start, QS.

That's 3 of the last 4 QS and 7 of the last 11 from a guy who got a 1 year, 1m extension.

I'll leave the sky is falling garbage to those who seem to do nothing but ignore the actual numbers.

The last month plus has seen JZ return from injury (his only truly bad stat has been HR/9), Lannan pitch better than any 2 month stretch in his career, Livan continue to be a solid SP, and Marquis getting better nearly every start.  That's four guys who should be part of the rotation next season, along with a FA or trade, with Detwiler and Maya starting the year in AAA and being ready whenever performance or injury requires it.
Here is the thing about quality starts: you could have nothing but quality starts and still have a 4.50 ERA.  Quality starts are a better stat than wins I guess, but not by much.  For someone like Livo who is not on a pitch count and is left out there for 6+ IP nearly every time, it's much more telling if you don't get a QS IMO.  You said it yourself... he has either not gone six innings or given up more than three runs (or both) in five of his last eleven starts.  Lannan I believe in... but the Lannan I believe in is a solid, 4.00-ish pitcher (basically who he was during his two "good" seasons).  JZ I am and have always been high on.  As for Marquis, you say you don't care about ERA?  Great, look up his peripherals since he got back from injury.  They're really not all that fantastic.  They are, in fact, the reason I'm predicting the ERA I am.  Detwiler and Maya are maybes who have yet to prove anything at the major league level.  If we're lucky, they'll be good.  But we can't rely on that.

Offline The Hammer

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Re: Nationals vs Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #199: September 29, 2010, 12:20:19 AM »
I couldn't care less about ERA.  I'm interested in stats that actually measure what the pitcher does like K/9, K/BB, FIP etc.

You also said Livan is turning back into a pumpkin.  Since the start of August he has the following results:  QS, QS, QS, QS, bad start, bad start, bad start, QS, QS, bad start, QS.

That's 3 of the last 4 QS and 7 of the last 11 from a guy who got a 1 year, 1m extension.

I'll leave the sky is falling garbage to those who seem to do nothing but ignore the actual numbers.

The last month plus has seen JZ return from injury (his only truly bad stat has been HR/9), Lannan pitch better than any 2 month stretch in his career, Livan continue to be a solid SP, and Marquis getting better nearly every start.  That's four guys who should be part of the rotation next season, along with a FA or trade, with Detwiler and Maya starting the year in AAA and being ready whenever performance or injury requires it.
You care about FIP until it doesn't suit your point. How about Marquis 4.94 FIP or 4.8 K/9. If John Lannan has a 4.70 FIP he is trash and a AA pitcher in your eyes, but Marquis can have an almost 5 FIP, and he is a star.