Author Topic: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1  (Read 4853 times)

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Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #75: September 14, 2010, 10:04:48 AM »
It's stupid for anybody to draw any conclusion about Maya at this point. Let him get some innings in this season and see what he looks like next year.

I said he will be a future star, and I still think so. That's not an ace, necessarily.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #76: September 14, 2010, 10:05:25 AM »
You guys are paranoid.  It's not him.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #77: September 14, 2010, 10:15:32 AM »
You guys are paranoid.  It's not him.

I think the guy is less direct and writes a bit better when he posts. Eagleskins is the only one to out, but he's already outed himself.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #78: September 14, 2010, 11:07:30 AM »
It's stupid for anybody to draw any conclusion about Maya at this point. Let him get some innings in this season and see what he looks like next year.
Maybe, but it's not stupid to say that he would never be a number one for "most" MLB teams, or even close really.  Simply put, he doesn't have the stuff for it, unless you think he is really Greg Maddux in disguise.  And that's without looking at any of his peripherals or stats so far, which are worse than his stuff right now.  I know it is his first year adjusting to the majors, but his minor league rate stats weren't exactly amazing either.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #79: September 14, 2010, 11:17:56 AM »
Maybe, but it's not stupid to say that he would never be a number one for "most" MLB teams, or even close really.  Simply put, he doesn't have the stuff for it, unless you think he is really Greg Maddux in disguise.  And that's without looking at any of his peripherals or stats so far, which are worse than his stuff right now.  I know it is his first year adjusting to the majors, but his minor league rate stats weren't exactly amazing either.

You are ignoring his forced lay off from March 2009 until July 2010.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #80: September 14, 2010, 11:44:52 AM »
You are ignoring his forced lay off from March 2009 until July 2010.
I'm really not.  If I were ignoring that I would be much harsher.  But a forced lay off doesn't take 3-4 mph off your fastball, which is the only way he could possibly have been considered a number one ML starter on "most teams" before this--it is way too hittable at this speed in the majors.  And it's not like he never touched a baseball during that period, either--he had workouts and (presumably) kept in shape throughout that period, and if he didn't I don't see how he has anyone but himself to blame.  Plus he's had a few months to work his way up here, including time at the instructional league--how is that so different from spring training?  I'm not saying he isn't still a little rusty, but if he were really number one material I would expect a return more along the lines of that of Liriano or Volquez or Zimmermann--erratic performances mixed in with occasional dominance, and above all good stuff (even if it isn't getting hitters out).  I don't see that with Maya.

Again, this isn't arguing that he's a bust or anything like that--it is way too early to say that--this is about him potentially being in the top 15 pitchers in the majors (has to be a number one on "most teams").  Do you really believe we have to wait for a few more outings before concluding that he doesn't belong to that elite category?  Here are the top 15 pitchers this year by WAR (and yes, they are all on different teams): Cliff Lee, Josh Johnson, Roy Halladay, Francisco Liriano, Felix Hernandez, Ubaldo Jimenez, Adam Wainright, Jon Lester, Jered Weaver, Justin Verlander, Zack Greinke, Tim Lincecum, Brett Myers, C.C. Sabathia, Gavin Floyd.  I'm curious to know which of them you think Maya will be replacing in the near future.

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #81: September 14, 2010, 11:52:08 AM »
Maya looks like a pitcher that has an arsenal of some really good pitches, that has struggled with locating his fastball, who can change his arm slot, who can take speed off his pitches, who can come inside against batters, and that is still making adjustments.  Labeling pitchers as #1 or #3 or #5 has always been a futile exercise in my mind.  Despite the runs he gave up, it is quite obvious that he is a major league caliber pitcher.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #82: September 14, 2010, 11:59:24 AM »
And it's not like he never touched a baseball during that period, either--he had workouts and (presumably) kept in shape throughout that period, and if he didn't I don't see how he has anyone but himself to blame. 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Boras apparently tells his clients to shut it down after their seasons are over until they get signed. The last thing you'd want to do is tweak something during a workout and fail a physical after getting signed.

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #83: September 14, 2010, 12:57:31 PM »
It just occurred to me.  How did he get the blister if he hadn't pitched in games in 18 months?  Also, did he not get blisters in Cuba? If so, how did he pitch with them then?  If not, why is he getting them now?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #84: September 14, 2010, 01:00:07 PM »
I think you answered your own question.

You get a blister by not throwing for 18 months and then picking up a baseball and throwing 100 pitches every couple of days.

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #85: September 14, 2010, 01:04:34 PM »
Are you saying you don't understand how people get blisters?

I understand perfectly.  It's not that uncommon for major league pitchers to get blisters on their pitching hands.  And they haven't been not pitching for 18 months.  My wonder is if this is a new occurrence for Maya.  If it is then fine.  If it's not and he's always gotten blisters like other pitchers get blisters, my other questions remain.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #86: September 14, 2010, 01:07:25 PM »
I understand perfectly.  It's not that uncommon for major league pitchers to get blisters on their pitching hands.  And they haven't been not pitching for 18 months.  My wonder is if this is a new occurrence for Maya.  If it is then fine.  If it's not and he's always gotten blisters like other pitchers get blisters, my other questions remain.

Who cares? Blisters didn't seem to hurt Nolan Ryan's career

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #87: September 14, 2010, 01:11:38 PM »
Who cares? Blisters didn't seem to hurt Nolan Ryan's career

Well, in this very thread, his difficulties now are being, in part, attributed to his blisters.  So someone cares.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #88: September 14, 2010, 01:17:48 PM »
Well, in this very thread, his difficulties now are being, in part, attributed to his blisters.  So someone cares.

Probably because they didn't realize just how long it was since he last pitched.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #89: September 14, 2010, 01:22:48 PM »
Who cares? Blisters didn't seem to hurt Nolan Ryan's career
Ryan threw the ball 100mph, he could afford to have poor command.  Do you want Maya to lead the league in walks?

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #90: September 14, 2010, 01:23:08 PM »
When it comes to blisters, Maya and Ryan don't make the best of comparisons.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #91: September 14, 2010, 01:27:39 PM »
When it comes to blisters, Maya and Ryan don't make the best of comparisons.

I think Ryan's were on his finger not thumb so you're right.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #92: September 14, 2010, 01:28:49 PM »
Ryan threw the ball 100mph, he could afford to have poor command.  Do you want Maya to lead the league in walks?

Yep that's exactly what I want. I go to bed every night praying that Maya leads the league in walks.

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #93: September 14, 2010, 01:31:05 PM »
I think Ryan's were on his finger not thumb so you're right.

Earlier than my time, so I'm not aware of the details, but I do know that a fireballer is going to have less trouble with a blister than say a junkballer.  When Lincecum was dealing with blister problems, it was his curveball that was suffering.  He was able to continue throwing his four-seam fastball without any problem.  Having said that, I'm not ready to attribute Maya's problems to a blister.  I think it is a bunch of external factors pressuring him at once.  Let him adjust to the league now in September, then let him compete for a spot in ST, because IMO there is no one that is healthy on this team that deserves to be given a rotation spot straight up.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #94: September 14, 2010, 01:37:17 PM »
Earlier than my time, so I'm not aware of the details, but I do know that a fireballer is going to have less trouble with a blister than say a junkballer.  When Lincecum was dealing with blister problems, it was his curveball that was suffering.  He was able to continue throwing his four-seam fastball without any problem.  Having said that, I'm not ready to attribute Maya's problems to a blister.  I think it is a bunch of external factors pressuring him at once.  Let him adjust to the league now in September, then let him compete for a spot in ST.

Beckett's was caused by his curve also. It happens most when pitchers switch balls (college to pro, minors to majors, Japan to US) I think Cuba still uses the horse hide ball so Maya's problem might simply be a case of adjusting to the slicker cow hide ball.

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #95: September 14, 2010, 01:40:25 PM »
Beckett's was caused by his curve also. It happens most when pitchers switch balls (college to pro, minors to majors, Japan to US) I think Cuba still uses the horse hide ball so Maya's problem might simply be a case of adjusting to the slicker cow hide ball.

I was thinking about Beckett as well.  Your explanation certainly sounds plausible, I was unaware that they still used horse hide.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 1
« Reply #96: September 14, 2010, 01:45:45 PM »
I was thinking about Beckett as well.  Your explanation certainly sounds plausible, I was unaware that they still used horse hide.

They still use it in Japan (I don't know about Korea,China,the other China or Australia). I think the only reason they quit using it here was the political crap associated with horse hide balls.