Author Topic: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1  (Read 12229 times)

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Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #350: September 06, 2010, 10:17:19 PM »
Does that mean I have to stop being a jackass in five months? :(

Wouldn't that just mean a self-imposed, five-month ban? 

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #351: September 06, 2010, 10:18:21 PM »
Wouldn't that just mean a self-imposed, five-month ban? 

I don't get the joke.  Ol' noggin' doesn't quite work like it used to.  I guess this is what it's like becoming old like you and Tom amiright? :P

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #352: September 06, 2010, 10:19:40 PM »
I explained the joke, but tom deleted the post :(

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #353: September 06, 2010, 10:22:19 PM »
I don't get the joke.  Ol' noggin' doesn't quite work like it used to.  I guess this is what it's like becoming old like you and Tom amiright? :P

Nope.  I misread your post.  Substituted the word "for" in the place of "in."

It does suck getting old.  :D

Offline tomterp

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #354: September 06, 2010, 10:22:55 PM »
I explained the joke, but tom deleted the post :(

 :nono:




Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #355: September 06, 2010, 10:23:08 PM »
Coaches shouldn't have to be the one to tell you to act like a professional.

Riggleman brought together his "in crowd" of veterans and asked if they should throw at Sanchez. That is not leadership, that is letting the inmates run the asylum.  

I don't disagree with the decision, I disagree with him being dumb enough to think he needed to ask.

People are regularly complaining that they don't know what is going on in the clubhouse (the latest is Olsen). Keeping to a standard requires you to know the clubhouse rules which don't seem to be apparent to anyone. Hell it doesn't seem like there really are any rules. The team seems to hustle a little more but I keep reading about what sounds like a lack of communication.

In that environment, I doubt a player newer to the game like Nyjer is going to do well. Riggleman is effectively leaving the coaching to his veterans if his public comments are any indication.

Judging by how slow they were to respond when Nyjer was getting dog piled by the Marlins he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy Riggleman's vets are going out of their way to help learn all those crazy, subtle rules of the game that get you plunked.

Offline Coladar

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #356: September 06, 2010, 10:31:55 PM »
Riggleman brought together his "in crowd" of veterans and asked if they should throw at Sanchez. That is not leadership, that is letting the inmates run the asylum. 

I don't disagree with the decision, I disagree with him being dumb enough to think he needed to ask.

People are regularly complaining that they don't know what is going on in the clubhouse. Keeping to a standard requires you to know the clubhouse rules which don't seem to be apparent to anymore. Hell it doesn't seem like there really are any rules. The team seems to hustle a little more but I keep reading about what sounds like a lack of communication.

In that environment, I doubt a player newer to the game like Nyjer is going to do well. Riggleman is effectively leaving the coaching to his veterans if his public comments are any indication.

I still strongly dislike Morgan's actions, but I have to agree with this. The fact that Morgan has played every game since the incidents, and the comments from Riggleman and Rizzo, including the discussion of whether to hit the Marlins... There is no discipline or respect for authority on this team. That is obvious now. And that's slightly what I was hinting at as to a reason Olsen is so unhappy or performing the way he is. Riggleman is godawful controlling the players, and giving any semblance of balance or continuity, or basic rules and punishment. I can easily see how given such a situation Morgan spiraled out of control, going from bad to worse, without any outside authority saying "hey, this is wrong, stop." it's 50/50 in my mind now, instead of 100% Morgan.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #357: September 06, 2010, 10:52:46 PM »
This is what really changed my mind. Looking back on the original time Morgan was plunked in that Marlins game. Riggleman as much as admitted he knew Nyjer stealing those bases would escalate the situation but gave him a green light anyway. He is still providing a green light despite the fact that Morgan has exhibited both poor results and judgement in the past regarding stealing bases and a near total ignorance of unwritten rules.

Even worse, after the steals, after the brawl, no one has explained to Nyjer why he broke all these unwritten rules which caused the Marlins to threw behind him or how throwing behind him in that case expressed lack of enthusiasm for the task. The guy still thinks he got suspended for hitting a catcher and took a suspension for standing up for his teammates. This is not a productive coaching situation which is why no matter how much of jackass he has been the coaches are part and parcel of the problem.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #358: September 06, 2010, 10:58:59 PM »
Good point. Then Slaten's plunk was not that hard and right in the buttcheek.

Offline Coladar

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #359: September 07, 2010, 01:56:31 AM »
Since I went to the game Saturday, I realized that today's game was the second time in three games we put more than nine guys at the plate in the fourth inning, and commented as much when Zimmerman came up to bat in the fourth today that he started the fourth Saturday, and got the third out the same inning. He likewise started the fourth today, but this time Dunn got the third out.

Since I didn't get home until 5am Sunday morning, I didn't catch yesterdays game. But I read or heard on TV we batted around the order Sunday as well. A few hours later, just now, I realized, could that have been in the fourth inning as well? Nah. No way. But I checked, and sure enough it was. I have to believe it's extraordinarily rare for a team to send 10 or more batters to the plate in an inning in three straight games. I'm sure it's been done, but rarely.

But three consecutive batting around the order games, and all three happened in the same inning? I have got to believe there's a strong chance that's never happened before in over 100 years of baseball. My ultimate point, is there somewhere you can email to check bizarre stats like that? Something like the Elias Says on ESPN.com? I'm sure 99% of the time someone wonders about a bizarre stat, it's fairly useless and not worth someones time to check. But this is such a freaking weird stat, three consecutive around the order games, and all three in the same inning? I'm dying to know if that's ever happened, and there's got to be a way to have someone with access to the databases that keep bizarre stats to check it. Any ideas?

Offline PC

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #360: September 07, 2010, 03:08:04 AM »
My ultimate point, is there somewhere you can email to check bizarre stats like that? Something like the Elias Says on ESPN.com? I'm sure 99% of the time someone wonders about a bizarre stat, it's fairly useless and not worth someones time to check. But this is such a freaking weird stat, three consecutive around the order games, and all three in the same inning? I'm dying to know if that's ever happened, and there's got to be a way to have someone with access to the databases that keep bizarre stats to check it. Any ideas?

Tim Kurkjian's Kurk-Gems (I believe that's what they're called) is nothing but these kind of things, like the game where Chase Utley, Shane Victorino and Ryan Zimmerman all homered in the same game, the first time players with last names starting with U, V and Z have ever homered in the same game.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #361: September 07, 2010, 08:25:42 AM »
This is what really changed my mind. Looking back on the original time Morgan was plunked in that Marlins game. Riggleman as much as admitted he knew Nyjer stealing those bases would escalate the situation but gave him a green light anyway. He is still providing a green light despite the fact that Morgan has exhibited both poor results and judgement in the past regarding stealing bases and a near total ignorance of unwritten rules.

Even worse, after the steals, after the brawl, no one has explained to Nyjer why he broke all these unwritten rules which caused the Marlins to threw behind him or how throwing behind him in that case expressed lack of enthusiasm for the task. The guy still thinks he got suspended for hitting a catcher and took a suspension for standing up for his teammates. This is not a productive coaching situation which is why no matter how much of jackass he has been the coaches are part and parcel of the problem.

A lot of those unwritten rules are BS.  The Nats are not supposed to try to score if down by a lot of runs?  Sure, we knew that Nyjer stealing was a big "F-U" to the Marlins, but they're the ones that put him on base intentionally, are they also to dictate the terms under which he is allowed to conduct himself in his baserunning?  Hitting a batter intentionally should carry its own risks, and Nyjer stealing a couple and scoring was a nice reminder to anyone who wants to employ such a strategy.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #362: September 07, 2010, 09:08:14 AM »
Throwing behind the batter is the biggest taboo in baseball. The Marlins didn't seem to have a problem breaking that unwritten rule. In short screw the Marlins and whoever is sticking up for throwing behind the batter.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #363: September 07, 2010, 09:19:17 AM »
My point is that Nyger is being poorly coached and therefore making an uninformed choice not that it was o.k. to throw behind him or to hit him.

Throwing behind someone says "cut it out or next time you get beaned" (I.E. intentionally hit in the head) which is potentially career ending and downright dangerous.

If the players are left to fend for themselves on the unwritten rules it provides little confidence they are receiving useful feedback on anything else. No wonder these toolsy guys struggle here and blossom elsewhere.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #364: September 07, 2010, 09:30:39 AM »
My point is that Nyger is being poorly coached and therefore making an uninformed choice not that it was o.k. to throw behind him or to hit him.

Throwing behind someone says "cut it out or next time you get beaned" (I.E. intentionally hit in the head) which is potentially career ending and downright dangerous.

Throwing behind somebody IS throwing at their head. (i.e. you back into the ball). The Marlins had no cause to throw at Nyjer to begin with. Carlos Quentin did the same thing against the Red Sox this weekend (Ran over the catcher when he could after been safe sliding). NAd Lackey apologized to Quentin for hitting him later in the game. Because the Sox knew is wasn't a dirty play, something the Marlins can't quite get a hold of.

Nyjer is 30 years old, he is past the coaching stage and in the doesn't get it stage.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #365: September 07, 2010, 09:33:42 AM »
Throwing behind somebody IS throwing at their head. (i.e. you back into the ball). .

The ball was low. If he backed into it, it would not have hit him in the head. If they wanted to bean him, they could have done so.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #366: September 07, 2010, 09:39:03 AM »
The ball was low. If he backed into it, it would not have hit him in the head. If they wanted to bean him, they could have done so.

Whether he threw high or low isn't the issue. He threw behind which is verboten.

BTW Who are these ex-Nat toolsy players you mentioned?

Offline Galah

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #367: September 07, 2010, 09:39:23 AM »
Nice to see Nyjer can still get you guys talking but what the heck does this have to do with Monday's game?

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #368: September 07, 2010, 09:50:50 AM »
Whether he threw high or low isn't the issue.

Actually it is precisely the issue. You seem to think that there is only plunk and bean. I'd contend that throwing behind someone low in the zone has the big FU attached to it but means the pitcher doesn't want to bean someone. If he was trying to get Morgan to back up and hit him in the head, he would at least have been throwing at the letters.

I'll save the toolsy discussion for another day but the gist is we had players which were baseball dumb with some raw athletic ability who did well elsewhere which I blame on us not coaching them and telling them what was acceptable in terms of play.

Offline EdStroud

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 1
« Reply #369: September 07, 2010, 12:36:59 PM »
Time to purchase an official jackass countdown clock, I guess.

Happy early B'day Chief