Author Topic: Justify This Move  (Read 1306 times)

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bramos

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Justify This Move
« Topic Start: July 18, 2005, 11:12:31 PM »
FR brings in Carroll to pinch hit for Church, ostensibly because it gives us better odds against the southpaw Fuentes.  (Although Church actually has been hitting lefties at a .300 clip.)  FR can also argue that Carroll would've gone on to replace Vidro (if the game had been extended) and stay in Church's spot in the batting order.  Byrd would've had to go into left field and take over Vidro's no. 2 spot.  Assuming the Chief goes another inning, it would've left us with only Gary Bennett on the bench to pinch hit for either Guzman or the pitcher!  How smart would that have been???  

It made absolutely no sense for FR - and his so called "gut instinct" - to overmanage in that situation.  Church could've ended the game right there with a gapper or a jack.  Carroll is a base-to-base, singles hitter.  It was a ridiculous, low-percentage move that typifies FR's skill as a strategist.

Offline Senators2005

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Justify This Move
« Reply #1: July 18, 2005, 11:15:08 PM »
I have to agree with you Bramos.  I'm still scratching my head on that move.  It's not like Ryan Church is a .190 hitter or strikeout king.  Why not let him bat?  I don't understand it any more than you do.   :?

natslive

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« Reply #2: July 18, 2005, 11:26:30 PM »
another justify this move - why have Guzman try to bunt in the 8th inning?  he's already proven he can't - why not pinch hit Carroll for him then and leave Jamey in to play SS..

Offline Kenz aFan

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« Reply #3: July 18, 2005, 11:35:53 PM »
I think we've all been doing a lot of head scratching over some of Frank's moves over the past couple of weeks. Had the Nats won most of those game, we probably wouldn't even have noticed them, but the slump is putting all the players and coaches under a magnifying glass and that's adding pressure on them all. The losses are making all the bad moves by Frank more visible, if the Nats win 8 games over the last 12 instead of just 3 no one would be talking about FR.

I've always thought (no, make that knew) that Frank Robinson, although an incredible and true Hall of Fame  player, wasn't one tenth the manager everyone seemed to think he was, or is. The last two weeks are making all his bad moves stick out so much, that even the blind are seeing them.

Offline Dave B

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« Reply #4: July 19, 2005, 12:00:57 PM »
I dont mind the Carroll pinch hit.  I was surprised he swung at the first pitch.  I was telling myself, he was in there to try and work a walk.  And thought there was a high probablility of him doing so.  If he works a walk, because Fuentes was all over the place. Vinny gets up in a sacrifice fly situation. I like those chances, especially because Fuentes now has to pitch with the bases loaded as well, and might groove vinny a meatball just trying to throw strikes.

mar (AKA pasqual AKA JMG)

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« Reply #5: July 19, 2005, 12:33:23 PM »
Quote from: "Kenz aFan"
I think we've all been doing a lot of head scratching over some of Frank's moves over the past couple of weeks. Had the Nats won most of those game, we probably wouldn't even have noticed them, but the slump is putting all the players and coaches under a magnifying glass and that's adding pressure on them all. The losses are making all the bad moves by Frank more visible, if the Nats win 8 games over the last 12 instead of just 3 no one would be talking about FR.

I've always thought (no, make that knew) that Frank Robinson, although an incredible and true Hall of Fame  player, wasn't one tenth the manager everyone seemed to think he was, or is. The last two weeks are making all his bad moves stick out so much, that even the blind are seeing them.


Its weird isn't it. I feel like I should keep a diary of Frank's moves as, like you, I got the feeling that they are always ...um... eccentric but we forget them when the Nats win.

Always easy to look at the failure of a move and say "well, if he would have done this, this good result would have happened" but of course you can never prove that.

However, this isn't the first time Frank has - to me - seemed rather obsessed with holding back possible pinch hitters for later use in situations where there is no guarantee there will be a "later."

He initially had Byrd on deck. Whether you think Church should have stayed in or not, this at least is consistent with his usual pattern of lifting Church with a leftie pitcher and putting in Byrd or vice versa.

I like Jamie but I got to think Byrd was less likely to GIDP, if only cos he doesn't hit many balls on the ground. He's hitting .467 with RISP against leftie pitching and has grounded into one DP in that situation.

Other hand, Carroll usualy is capable of drawing a walk. For whatever reason, he swung at a DP pitch, showing less than his usual patience.

So yeah, leave in Church or PH Byrd. The rationale of saving Byrd cos Carroll would have to come in anyway with Vidro tossed ended up being moot.

I also agree with you that the moves lately have seemed weirder than usual, but, again, I can't actually cite the pattern when they were winning as being different, its just my impression.

I always thought Bowden had a "coaching staff in waiting" with Boone, Larkin, Rijo, etc and, if the Nats had gotten off to a poor start, Frank would have been gone.

Reality now is he won't. My personal opinion is he is unlikely to survive the transition to new ownership, but obviously a lot will depend on who is GM.

Offline Kenz aFan

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« Reply #6: July 19, 2005, 05:59:54 PM »
Quote from: "mar (AKA pasqual AKA JMG)"
Reality now is he won't. My personal opinion is he is unlikely to survive the transition to new ownership, but obviously a lot will depend on who is GM.

I have a strong feeling that if the Malek group ends up being the new owners, that the Red Sox Theo Epstein's assistant, Josh Byrnes will be hired as the Nats new GM