Author Topic: MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion  (Read 1118 times)

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Offline CJames0569

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #25: April 15, 2010, 10:01:32 AM »
So it could be like basketball with the Lakers/Spurs/Celtics winning every year?

I think the NFL would be a better comparison to MLB with a salary cap based on a few things like the amount of players per team and the depth and relative uncertainty of the draft.

Offline blue911

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #26: April 15, 2010, 10:06:06 AM »
How do you incorporate a salary cap into a sport that has a 50 round draft plus international free agents? For example, The Red Sox paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $52M just to talk with Matsuzaka's agents. That money didn't count against the luxury tax since the money wasn't payroll.

Offline tomterp

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #27: April 15, 2010, 10:18:35 AM »
How do you incorporate a salary cap into a sport that has a 50 round draft plus international free agents? For example, The Red Sox paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $52M just to talk with Matsuzaka's agents. That money didn't count against the luxury tax since the money wasn't payroll.

Maybe they should have an international draft too.

Offline soxfan59

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #28: April 15, 2010, 10:20:04 AM »
Meanwhile clubs like the Orioles only fill the park when those two teams come to town, whereas when they were competitive, Camden Yards was filled with Orioles fans.  Now they, and many other clubs, have been reduced to begging for crumbs.

The Boston/NY nexus of baseball interest is eroding interest in many other markets, to a greater extent than those two markets alone can replace.

Its media focus, and marketing.  The Cubs have almost as much of a national following as the Yankees and Red Sox, primarily because of the their formerly ubiquitous presence on WGN on a national cable market.  Combine this with the "charm" factor or marketing both Wrigley Field and the "Lovable Losers," and you have what is arguably the most popular team in baseball west of New Jersey.  And while the on-field product for the Cubs has been markedly improved in recent years, no one would put them in the same competitive circles as Yanks/Red Sox. 

The Cardinals are also very, very popular because they have traditionally had a radio network that brought Cards games to anyone who wanted to listen in the midwest.  They still do. 

The Yankees and Red Sox have the money to spend, in part, because they also have massive, revenue producing broadcast outlets. 

Teams like Kansas City and Pittsburgh are doubly cursed, being in small markets and having very little opportunity for media exposure.  Perhaps if teams like the Royals (or the Nats, for that matter) could become competitive, they could generate enough to begin to lay the foundation for more marketing success.  (Recall the salad days of the late 70s and early 80s for Kansas City and Pittsburgh). 

Things will not change, however, as long as the Players' Union holds most of the bargaining clout, and as long as all 30 teams continue to make money. 

Offline DPMOmaha

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #29: April 15, 2010, 10:25:50 AM »
The Royals made a run at the division a few years back and received plenty of attention.  If they win, they'll get the attention.

Offline PANatsFan

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #30: April 15, 2010, 10:26:52 AM »
Maybe they should have an international draft too.


But then how would sleazy opportunists steal from young kids in the DR?

Offline tomterp

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« Reply #31: April 15, 2010, 10:29:29 AM »
The Royals made a run at the division a few years back and received plenty of attention. 

In the '70's?     :lol:

Offline HalfSmokes

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #32: April 15, 2010, 10:37:45 AM »
I think the NFL would be a better comparison to MLB with a salary cap based on a few things like the amount of players per team and the depth and relative uncertainty of the draft.

Do you think Cleveland or Detroit fans are anymore hopeful than nats or royals fans?

Offline blue911

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #33: April 15, 2010, 10:38:12 AM »
Maybe they should have an international draft too.

I think they all should be drafted. But as far as I know, baseball is the only sport that has an in season draft.

Offline DPMOmaha

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #35: April 15, 2010, 10:38:45 AM »
Do you think Cleveland or Detroit fans are anymore hopeful than nats or royals fans?

So I gather you just like the system as is?

Offline HalfSmokes

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #36: April 15, 2010, 10:43:29 AM »
So I gather you just like the system as is?

I don't have a huge problem with it. The Yankees have an advantage and can usually make the playoffs, the Mets have the same market and blow it. There is nothing intrinsically more valuable about the Boston market than the DC market. The Angels and Dodgers are in the second biggest market and they compete, but aren't really dominant. The two teams sharing the third biggest market, haven't dominated at all, and this assumes that Toronto isn't actually the second biggest market (or biggest since its a one team city). I think proper moves by a front office over a period of time and proper marketing can make most teams very competitive, and I don't buy the salary cap argument (are the lakers any less dominant that the Yankees?), I think it's a crutch and and excuse for inept owners.

Offline PANatsFan

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #37: April 15, 2010, 10:48:01 AM »
or 2004

2004 Royals=2005 Nats=no one remembers or cares

Offline DPMOmaha

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #38: April 15, 2010, 10:49:00 AM »
2004 Royals=2005 Nats=no one remembers or cares
That's not the point.  The point is, when they were making their runs, people did pay attention and they did care.  If they'd sustained it, they'd be getting plenty of attention.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #39: April 15, 2010, 10:56:36 AM »
The only thing I'd like to see change is the trading of draft picks... and also, a salary bonus ceiling/slotting for all picks.

That way, the Nats could stockpile picks and not have to worry about spending a ton of money on the bonuses for each player.

Offline blue911

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #40: April 15, 2010, 11:07:04 AM »
The only thing I'd like to see change is the trading of draft picks... and also, a salary bonus ceiling/slotting for all picks.

That way, the Nats could stockpile picks and not have to worry about spending a ton of money on the bonuses for each player.

The NBA has a cap system for rookies and vets and it seems to work for them.Although NBA players tend to pick up a ton of endorsement money that MLB players can't seem to tap into.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #41: April 15, 2010, 01:25:55 PM »
The MLB needs a salary cap. It might not fix everything, but it would help immensely. Unfortunately the MLB is too corrupt, crooked and seedy to make a level playing field happen. Red Sox and Yanks would be extremely against such a thing so it must be bad for the MLB as a whole. :roll:
The Red Sox aim to spend up to the luxury tax threshold, but not higher. Sort of a self imposed cap. they may exceed it this year, but they were far below it last year and have left themselves rooom to resign Martinez and pursue more next year.  They push for minimum spending from the teams that do get revenue sharing. there was the John Henry thread a while back . . .

http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,16107.0.html

Offline soxfan59

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #42: April 15, 2010, 02:29:50 PM »
or 2004

It was actually 2003.  They finished with 83 wins and finished 7 games out, but never really challenged for the division.  Only time since 1993 they have even remotely contended.  I don't think that gets you the kind of attention we're talking about.

Offline DPMOmaha

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MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #43: April 15, 2010, 02:49:43 PM »
It was actually 2003.  They finished with 83 wins and finished 7 games out, but never really challenged for the division.  Only time since 1993 they have even remotely contended.  I don't think that gets you the kind of attention we're talking about.
Whatever, the year is irrelevant, the point still remains, win and you'll get attention. 

And they most certainly did challenge for the division, leading it up until the last day in August when they ran out of steam.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #44: April 15, 2010, 04:47:07 PM »
The NBA has a cap system for rookies and vets and it seems to work for them.Although NBA players tend to pick up a ton of endorsement money that MLB players can't seem to tap into.

the nba has less parity than baseball

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #45: April 16, 2010, 10:00:55 AM »
the nba has less parity than baseball

Agreed.  Folks who think a salary cap will bring "parity" need look no further than the NBA for proof otherwise.

Offline blue911

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Re: MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #46: April 16, 2010, 10:03:04 AM »
Agreed.  Folks who think a salary cap will bring "parity" need look no further than the NBA for proof otherwise.

Or read Harrison Bergeron

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #47: April 16, 2010, 10:04:59 AM »
Or read Harrison Bergeron

The America's Funniest Videos guy?

Offline blue911

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Re: MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #48: April 16, 2010, 11:02:39 AM »
The America's Funniest Videos guy?

You sir, are a moron.

Offline soxfan59

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Re: MLB Attendance and NY/Boston-itis discussion
« Reply #49: April 17, 2010, 09:05:53 AM »
Or read Harrison Bergeron

You should have referenced the movie "2081."  Nobody reds dem books no mo.