Spring Training Game Threads (2010)

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Actually, I was stating that that allowing 1 earned run over 3 innings was a line a lot of our other pitchers would have liked to have had not that Livo had some great outing.

I didn't think you were saying he had some great outing, but I think using his ERA today is kind of misleading.

At any rate, you are right.  He's really no worse than the other guys we might put at 3-4-5.  That's a sad testament to how bad our back-end guys are.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

So he's in the Doug Davis class. Only he hits and field better than Davis. To be honest, I don't think Livan even gets an invite if Detwiler doesn't have surgery.

Right on Doug Davis, right on no invite if Detwiler does not get hurt.  I guess what has me a somewhat grumbly today is that I am concerned about the talk that he was conceded a spot as soon as he was signed, and that this so-called bullpen saving innings eater is not recognized as burning your bullpen 35 - 45% of the time.

[Lintyfresh85]

My objection is that a number of persons are pointing at his first 3 run outing as proof that he's a washed up bum, as if any pitcher's first 3 innings of the spring is proof of anything. 

No, his last four years clearly prove that point for me.

[shoeshineboy]

if Livan makes the team, then it means that our pitching is absolutely atrocious

Can't argue with that. I believe that the pitching is atrocious and that is exactly why Livo will likely end up with a spot. Saying that Livo is going to get one of the three spots and wanting him to have one of the three spots are two different things. Nothing would make me happier than to see us have three guys take Livo out of consideration. I don't see it happening.

If Livo has a couple of more outings where he throws for 3-4 innings of yielding hits and walks but keeps the runs to a minimum, Rizzo will have all the justification he needs to put him on the roster until Wang or Detwiler are healthy.

[shoeshineboy]

I didn't think you were saying he had some great outing, but I think using his ERA today is kind of misleading.

At any rate, you are right.  He's really no worse than the other guys we might put at 3-4-5.  That's a sad testament to how bad our back-end guys are.

Yeah, I don't like to use ERA or wins as an evaluator of pitchers. WHIP is valuable stat, but so are the raw numbers of BBs, Ks, and HRs. Livo is not the worst 5th starter someone could roll out there as a bridge to a Strasburg callup or a Wang return. Unfortunately, we are in this position.

I like both Stammen and Martin, but prefer Martin from what I saw. It would be great to see one of them show that he is ready to take it to the next level. But I don't think either is what Rizzo had in mind. The Detwiler injury hurt, and certainly JZ going down last year was a big blow. I don't think they see the other young guys in the same class, and are opting for the devil they know.

[PC]

This thread has made me really depressed.  

Of course, the team being 0-10 doesn't help.

[shoeshineboy]

This thread has made me really depressed.   

Of course, the team being 0-10 doesn't help.

On the bright side, it looks like we finally out hit an opponent.

[Obed_Marsh]

If Livo is a bum, what are all these other so called pitchers? 

[JMW IV]

If Livo is a bum, what are all these other so called pitchers? 

and there is the main problem.

[imref]

i'm starting to wonder how they justify keeping strasburg in the minors they way he's pitching, he's been the best starter they've had this spring and given he pitched through his senior year, the olympics, and the AFL he's not exactly a kid.  Imagine the fan rebellion if they start the season 3-13 and we're watching Scott Olsen give up 5 runs in 3 innings while Strasburg is posting a 1.10 ERA in Potomac.

[Obed_Marsh]

Watching this Spring I am fine with them keeping him in the bigs as long as they don't blow his arm out in the process. I wish we had a better alternative but frankly I am not seeing one.

[shoeshineboy]

i'm starting to wonder how they justify keeping strasburg in the minors they way he's pitching,

Because he has never faced big league hitting before, none of these big league hitters have seen him before, and none of them have seen him more than once. 5 innings in ST mean nothing for anyone. They have no idea how this kid will handle a big-league environment physically or mentally. Certainly, the guy has great raw ability. But he has never pitched that many innings, that often, or faced the type of stressful innings he will get at the pro level. He was used to pitching against and dominating college hitters. That's not the same thing. He could go out, give up a hit or walk, find himself in the stretch and fall apart. Rushing him up to make a debut only to see him get shaken and sent back down won't do anyone any good. He's not far off, but they need to build him up. He will show that he is ready soon enough.

[d_mc_nabb]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the other day in the Post in "The Daily Strasburg" (yes, we've reached that point) the number was 158, for max innings he would be allowed to pitch this year because of the Nats rule that a (young) pitcher can't pitch more than 120% of the innings thrown the previous year. By those standards, there would be plenty of games where we'd have to rely on bullpen. Are we confident enough to do that yet? Yes, it's inevitable he'll be up by mid-year, but...

[PANatsFan]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the other day in the Post in "The Daily Strasburg" (yes, we've reached that point) the number was 158, for max innings he would be allowed to pitch this year because of the Nats rule that a (young) pitcher can't pitch more than 120% of the innings thrown the previous year. By those standards, there would be plenty of games where we'd have to rely on bullpen. Are we confident enough to do that yet? Yes, it's inevitable he'll be up by mid-year, but...

Detwiler and Wang are waiting in the wings.

[d_mc_nabb]

Detwiler and Wang are waiting in the wings.

So, we send him back down? Or just start him down, at like 5 innings a start til he gets a call up?

[PANatsFan]

So, we send him back down? Or just start him down, at like 5 innings a start til he gets a call up?

Start him on OD, shut him down at his innings limit, and bring up Detwiler. Don't limit his innings per start, that's moronic.

[amanuel]

Any highlights anyone? Of strasberry crapting on the Cards?

[d_mc_nabb]

Start him on OD, shut him down at his innings limit, and bring up Detwiler. Don't limit his innings per start, that's moronic.

This is true, but they did it last year with prospects in the minors.

I like the rule in theory, but it means that a player like Stras won't hit 200 til '12.

[Galah]

I was happy to have the chance to see Strasburg pitch today and I know I don't have the baseball creds most of the posters here do, but ...just a couple of observations.
It's really frustrating watching a ST game because no one really seems to be trying to win (well, at least not on our team)....pitchers are pulled too early, stay in too long, the entire outfield changes...you can only really watch it in one or two inning clips. Stras' three inning were great, we even got some offense going. Livan had "the lost inning" which seemed to take FOREVER to finally finish up...after that...there were just bits in pieces of a game - the Vilone throwing error, a great catch in left field, trying to cheer on a 9th inning rally because we were only down 5 runs....and actually getting one run back.
it was a beautiful day for baseball in Viera, just a bit breezy...but the beer was cold.
Let's do it all again tomorrow, shall we?

[PANatsFan]

This is true, but they did it last year with prospects in the minors.

I like the rule in theory, but it means that a player like Stras won't hit 200 til '12.

With Atilano? It was asinine. Should have been a pitch count. How did he do today?

[tomterp]

I was happy to have the chance to see Strasburg pitch today and I know I don't have the baseball creds most of the posters here do, but ...just a couple of observations.
It's really frustrating watching a ST game because no one really seems to be trying to win (well, at least not on our team)....pitchers are pulled too early, stay in too long, the entire outfield changes...you can only really watch it in one or two inning clips. Stras' three inning were great, we even got some offense going. Livan had "the lost inning" which seemed to take FOREVER to finally finish up...after that...there were just bits in pieces of a game - the Vilone throwing error, a great catch in left field, trying to cheer on a 9th inning rally because we were only down 5 runs....and actually getting one run back.
it was a beautiful day for baseball in Viera, just a bit breezy...but the beer was cold.
Let's do it all again tomorrow, shall we?

fixed.

And what catch are are you talking about?

[Galah]

fixed.

And what catch are are you talking about?

I'm embarrassed to say, I am not sure, J. Max had replaced T. Plush in Centerfield and Willingham had been replaced as well....it was the 7th or 8th inning, deep drive back to left field and this guy just got on his horse and ran it down...Willy Tavarez? I think
 

[imref]

Because he has never faced big league hitting before, none of these big league hitters have seen him before, and none of them have seen him more than once. 5 innings in ST mean nothing for anyone. They have no idea how this kid will handle a big-league environment physically or mentally. Certainly, the guy has great raw ability. But he has never pitched that many innings, that often, or faced the type of stressful innings he will get at the pro level. He was used to pitching against and dominating college hitters. That's not the same thing. He could go out, give up a hit or walk, find himself in the stretch and fall apart. Rushing him up to make a debut only to see him get shaken and sent back down won't do anyone any good. He's not far off, but they need to build him up. He will show that he is ready soon enough.

I see your point, but he has a lot of experience for a guy his age (AFL, Olympics), and he's dominating so far in spring training.  Remember that Gooden came up at an even younger age and pitched pretty well.  We keep hearing that Strasburg is on a different plane from everyone else, so why treat him like he's just another guy?  If he's ready to face major league hitting, and so far it appears he is, why wait?  Start him under a Joba rules type scenario, 5-6 innings per start depending on pitch count, then shut him down after 150-160 IP. 

I guess we'll see what happens this week, if they are going to start him in the minors it probably makes sense to reassign him to the minor camp fairly soon rather than have him take up someone else's spot who is actually going for a job in the rotation.

[sportsfan882]

0-10? really? it's almost comical at this point.

this team defies logic and common sense.

[PANatsFan]

0-10? really? it's almost comical at this point.

this team defies logic and common sense.

Picking right up where you left off?