Author Topic: Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread  (Read 17884 times)

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Offline bglide

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #150: October 04, 2010, 04:42:31 AM »
Desmond sucks.  We have two real players on this team.  The idiot owners will get rid of one. 

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #151: October 04, 2010, 11:52:01 AM »
Desmond is better than betancort.  And linty, I think ladson is saying that in terms that ID isn't afraid to speak up.  Look @ that clubhouse its a lot of quiet guys.  Someone like swisher would be a good voice.

All in all, the errors were a lot and I like to think in his second full season he'd only have 20ish.  The bat was decent, except for a slow start and tired finish. 

If we re-sign dunn, I have faith in our infield (zim, id, espy, dunn)

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #152: October 04, 2010, 12:20:50 PM »
No, Ladson is a freaking dickhead that doesn't know crap about baseball.

He meant what he said. That's why he said 'end of story'. He's a loser. Period. End of story.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #153: October 04, 2010, 02:54:15 PM »
No, Ladson is a freaking dickhead that doesn't know crap about baseball.

He meant what he said. That's why he said 'end of story'. He's a loser. Period. End of story.

to each his own.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #154: October 04, 2010, 03:00:09 PM »
to each his own.

Ladson said: "Desmond is the leader of the Nationals. End of Story."

(My emphasis)

Ladson and this organization have an absolutely ridiculous love affair with a mediocre SS who they believe will "figure it all out" defensively after years in the minors say otherwise.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #155: October 04, 2010, 03:02:26 PM »
Desmond's minor league error numbers:

30, 39, 37, 32, 23, 28

Tell me, please, where this massive improvement is going to come from? The pressure of the majors? Our wonderful coaching staff? The guy has never been a consistently good defensive SS, but yet this organization believes that moving a fantastic defensive SS is the right way to go.

Offensively Desmond is average at best. He doesn't walk, he strikes out a lot, and doesn't have a solid average. But he's a "winner," right? So he's the future SS while we will hurt our team by moving Espinosa to 2B. 

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #156: October 04, 2010, 03:06:39 PM »
They need to go get that infield coach from the Pirates.  Didn't he want out of there, anyway?

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #157: October 04, 2010, 03:07:52 PM »
I don't understand how Espinosa's value is hurt @ 2B?  Who the freak cares where he plays as long as he can hit and play defense.  His glove was fantastic, but he owned a .218 average, so if we're going to cut a young Desmond may as well cut a young Espinosa.

Quite frankly, I don't care who is out there, but obviously the coaches/think tank is high on ID @ SS.  And it's not like we have better options in our system now do we?  Gonzalez?  Orr?  No thanks. 

Offline UMDNats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #158: October 04, 2010, 03:07:57 PM »
They need to go get that infield coach from the Pirates.  Didn't he want out of there, anyway?

Yea but he'll probably have many suitors and I doubt we'll give him some amazing offer compared to a job with a winning organization.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #159: October 04, 2010, 03:08:37 PM »
I don't understand how Espinosa's value is hurt @ 2B?  Who the freak cares where he plays as long as he can hit and play defense.  His glove was fantastic, but he owned a .218 average, so if we're going to cut a young Desmond may as well cut a young Espinosa.

Quite frankly, I don't care who is out there, but obviously the coaches/think tank is high on ID @ SS.

More intelligent posters than myself have argued that Espinosa's projected offensive value is much higher at SS rather than at 2B. (If I'm remembering correctly)

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #160: October 04, 2010, 03:10:03 PM »
More intelligent posters than myself have argued that Espinosa's projected offensive value is much higher at SS rather than at 2B. (If I'm remembering correctly)

i know what you're saying, but i don't believe in that.  who cares where he plays as long as he hits and plays good defense.  dan uggla isn't your protypical 2B, but he seems to be doing something right in florida.

if there are better options in the line-up than desmond, then by all means ... play that option.

Offline Sharp

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #161: October 04, 2010, 03:10:34 PM »
I don't understand how Espinosa's value is hurt @ 2B?  Who the freak cares where he plays as long as he can hit and play defense.  His glove was fantastic, but he owned a .218 average, so if we're going to cut a young Desmond may as well cut a young Espinosa.

Quite frankly, I don't care who is out there, but obviously the coaches/think tank is high on ID @ SS.  And it's not like we have better options in our system now do we?  Gonzalez?  Orr?  No thanks.  
Um, I don't know that many of us really care about where he is as a function of his bat (though it's true that his projected numbers are better for an SS than a 2B).  Rather, we'd prefer that the better defender (Espinosa) be at SS.  If Espinosa was the next coming of Mickey Mantle offensively we would still prefer him at SS over Desmond.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #162: October 04, 2010, 03:11:53 PM »
Um, I don't know that many of us really care about where he is as a function of his bat (though it's true that his projected numbers are better for an SS than a 2B).  Rather, we'd prefer that the better defender (Espinosa) be at SS.  If Espinosa was the next coming of Mickey Mantle offensively we would still prefer him at SS over Desmond.

well i guess the nats see something different, don't know what to tell ya.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #163: October 04, 2010, 03:14:48 PM »
More intelligent posters than myself have argued that Espinosa's projected offensive value is much higher at SS rather than at 2B. (If I'm remembering correctly)

My problem with that argument is what if Desmond can't learn second base? Espinosa has already shown he can, and Desmond's range and arm show he has the talent to play short. I couldn't find a game log for fielding, but I am pretty sure he had more errors in less games before the all-star break. Even with all the errors Desmond still has an average major league player, and that was this teams main problem. They had replacement level players at center, right, catcher, and second for most of the year. Fill those four spots with average major league talent and you are looking at a 8-12 game improvement. Of course that also means you need to keep Adam Dunn or find anoth 4-5 WAR player for first.

Offline Sharp

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #164: October 04, 2010, 03:15:46 PM »
well i guess the nats see something different, don't know what to tell ya.
The Nats believe, and I'm sure they have data we don't have access to to back this up, that Desmond has the "best" range of any SS in the game (as far as I can tell from the statistics available this isn't true, but okay), that his errors are mostly on balls that other SSes don't get to (again, possible, but he makes so many of them that it's definitely cost the team some runs), and that his overall defensive profile is already improving and will improve further with more experience at SS (improbable from where I'm sitting).  Now, keep in mind that this is what the FO is saying publicly, so it's possible that internally they're having a very different discussion re: Desmond's ultimate place on the team vs. Espinosa's.  Recently Rizzo has been a bit less emphatic about whether Espinosa is really going to be at 2B throughout next year, saying that there would be further evaluation at spring training, etc.  But to deduce anything else from that would be pure speculation.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #165: October 04, 2010, 03:16:30 PM »
The thing is that Desmond plays SS like a 2B and Espinosa plays 2B like a SS.

Offline Sharp

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #166: October 04, 2010, 03:17:54 PM »
My problem with that argument is what if Desmond can't learn second base? Espinosa has already shown he can, and Desmond's range and arm show he has the talent to play short. I couldn't find a game log for fielding, but I am pretty sure he had more errors in less games before the all-star break. Even with all the errors Desmond still has an average major league player, and that was this teams main problem. They had replacement level players at center, right, catcher, and second for most of the year. Fill those four spots with average major league talent and you are looking at a 8-12 game improvement. Of course that also means you need to keep Adam Dunn or find anoth 4-5 WAR player for first.
If Desmond can't learn second base, and we have two ostensibly major-league quality shortstops, the logical solution is to trade the one we don't want!  It's a luxury the Nats haven't really had yet in their brief existence (except maybe with the bullpen this year) but it is what good teams with depth do when they have a surplus of starting players at one position.  Obviously this is contingent on our being able to adequately fill 2B, of course, whether with a player acquired in the trade or someone else.  But if Desmond can learn 2B--and I have yet to see any evidence that he cannot, especially since many former shortstops switch to 2B later in their careers--then this all becomes moot.  At the very least, in the interest of being conscientious the Nats should have Desmond familiarize himself with playing 2B during the offseason and/or spring training.  If it turns out he can't ameliorate himself to the position, so be it.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #167: October 04, 2010, 03:19:42 PM »
If Desmond can't learn second base, and we have two ostensibly major-league quality shortstops, the logical solution is to trade the one we don't want!  It's a luxury the Nats haven't really had yet in their brief existence (except maybe with the bullpen this year) but it is what good teams with depth do when they have a surplus of starting players at one position.

Yes but then we have a hole at second again that this team simply hasn't filled since Vidro became a problem. Suddenly the hole is filled with an average to above average player. Why create a hole when you don't have to?

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #168: October 04, 2010, 03:19:45 PM »
The Nats believe, and I'm sure they have data we don't have access to to back this up, that Desmond has the "best" range of any SS in the game (as far as I can tell from the statistics available this isn't true, but okay), that his errors are mostly on balls that other SSes don't get to (again, possible, but he makes so many of them that it's definitely cost the team some runs), and that his overall defensive profile is already improving and will improve further with more experience at SS (improbable from where I'm sitting).  Now, keep in mind that this is what the FO is saying publicly, so it's possible that internally they're having a very different discussion re: Desmond's ultimate place on the team vs. Espinosa's.  Recently Rizzo has been a bit less emphatic about whether Espinosa is really going to be at 2B throughout next year, saying that there would be further evaluation at spring training, etc.  But to deduce anything else from that would be pure speculation.

fair enough. 

i think riggleman/rizzo are high on him.  again the errors were awful this year, but i think he improved a bit and i'm hoping his numbers go down next year.  bob/ray would comment some of the plays he made towards the end of the year (eating plays when there was no throw, going for the sure out, etc) as a sign of progress. 

and while i think he has good range, i agree he in no way has the best range in the game.

Offline Sharp

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #169: October 04, 2010, 03:22:34 PM »
Yes but then we have a hole at second again that this team simply hasn't filled since Vidro became a problem. Suddenly the hole is filled with an average to above average player. Why create a hole when you don't have to?
Right.  But as I said above, the Nats owe it to themselves to at least see if Desmond can make the switch... if he can't, no harm done.

Online houston-nat

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #170: October 13, 2010, 04:09:46 AM »
Per Joe Posnanski, Ian Kinsler is the first ever Ian to be a major league starter. Which makes Ian Desmond the second...

Online blue911

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #171: October 13, 2010, 09:40:08 AM »
Per Joe Posnanski, Ian Kinsler is the first ever Ian to be a major league starter. Which makes Ian Desmond the second...

He's splitting hairs. Ian Snell was the starter for the Pirates a year before Kinsler.

Offline welch

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #172: October 13, 2010, 09:56:23 AM »
The thing is that Desmond plays SS like a 2B and Espinosa plays 2B like a SS.

+1.

I only see the Nats when they play the Muts, but that was enough to see Desmond appear to be hand-cuffed on hard-hit grounders. Desmond hits more like a typical 2B.

Espinosa seems to have range and a strong arm. His hitting, on paper, looks like Eddie Brinkman or Kevin Elster. Brinkman was a good enough fielder that he started st SS for the Nats all through the '60s. Espinosa has a hardr swing, power power, than Brinkman, but he looked a lot like J Maxwell in those last Muts games.

I would switch them and

- work Desmond hard  on his defense

- coach Espinosa on his hitting.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #173: October 13, 2010, 10:41:14 AM »
The thing is that Desmond plays SS like a 2B and Espinosa plays 2B like a SS.

In what way does Desmond play SS like a 2B?

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: King Ian Desmond Appreciation Thread
« Reply #174: October 13, 2010, 10:44:51 AM »
In what way does Desmond play SS like a 2B?
Mostly in the way he plays the ball.  I was always taught to attack the ball from SS as often as possible.  He stays back and relies on his arm too much and not his legs to work in tandem with his arm.  It's less of an issue to do that at 2B.