Author Topic: New payroll tax / minimum spending proposal from John Henry  (Read 2164 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 27613
  • Hell yes!
Regardless, touting the schools just strengthens my case for "boring"

And "hanging out on a Friday night" is the litmus test for livability?

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 16335
  • GOOOOOOOOOOD MORNIN' VIETNAM!
And "hanging out on a Friday night" is the litmus test for livability?

It is if you're 20-something and don't have any kids.

I'm dying to move back to the DC area someday but I refuse to move back to the city while I have school-aged kids living at home.

Offline PANatsFan

  • Posts: 37010
  • dogs in uncensored, nudes in gameday
Chief gets it.

Tom is arguing with a strawman. I said San Jose was boring, not a horrible place to live. It's rather nice, actually.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 27613
  • Hell yes!
It is if you're 20-something and don't have any kids.

I'm dying to move back to the DC area someday but I refuse to move back to the city while I have school-aged kids living at home.

We moved to Fairfax for job proximity and quality of public schools, and the chance to have a decent sized yard.  It's a fine place to raise kids.  I really miss living in the center of Alexandria, however, where I lived for 19 years.  Funky old houses and diverse, interesting neighbors and restuarants, shops, and other diversions. 

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 16335
  • GOOOOOOOOOOD MORNIN' VIETNAM!
We moved to Fairfax for job proximity and quality of public schools, and the chance to have a decent sized yard.  It's a fine place to raise kids.  I really miss living in the center of Alexandria, however, where I lived for 19 years.  Funky old houses and diverse, interesting neighbors and restuarants, shops, and other diversions. 

I really miss living on the Hill but the closest elementary school was some school in Northeast that I visited when the show I was working on did a tour stop there.  I was HORRIFIED and although childless at the time told my wife that my kids will not go to public school in the District - ever. 

Plus a lot of my baseball practices were held at Eastern High School and some during school hours.  No thanks...

Offline PANatsFan

  • Posts: 37010
  • dogs in uncensored, nudes in gameday


I really miss living on the Hill but the closest elementary school was some school in Northeast that I visited when the show I was working on did a tour stop there.  I was HORRIFIED and although childless at the time told my wife that my kids will not go to public school in the District - ever. 

Plus a lot of my baseball practices were held at Eastern High School and some during school hours.  No thanks...

Ellington and Banneker are pretty special schools.

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 16335
  • GOOOOOOOOOOD MORNIN' VIETNAM!
Ellington and Banneker are pretty special schools.

Banneker rings a bell....

Online blue911

  • Posts: 16250
Ellington and Banneker are pretty special schools.

Try getting into college with a diploma from the DC public school system.

Offline PANatsFan

  • Posts: 37010
  • dogs in uncensored, nudes in gameday
Banneker rings a bell....

Banneker is the science magnet and Ellington is the Performing Arts magnet - both have a ton talented, smart, and motivated kids. I hate that when people dump on DC schools (often deservedly so), they ignore the two very bright spots.

Offline PANatsFan

  • Posts: 37010
  • dogs in uncensored, nudes in gameday
Try getting into college with a diploma from the DC public school system.

You don't think a diploma from Ellington is valuable?

Online blue911

  • Posts: 16250
You don't think a diploma from Ellington is valuable?

I do but I'm not a college admissions officer. The fact remains that my nephew has been accepted to Brown,yet hasn't even formally applied. Do you think he would get that kind of treatment if he attended Ellington/Banneker instead of Sidwell?

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 27613
  • Hell yes!
There are really good private schools all over the DC area, except for perhaps PG.  For public school systems, however, Fairfax and Montgomery are heads above the rest.  I doubt any private schools can match TJ. 

Online blue911

  • Posts: 16250
There are really good private schools all over the DC area, except for perhaps PG.  For public school systems, however, Fairfax and Montgomery are heads above the rest.  I doubt any private schools can match TJ. 

What's TJ?

Offline PANatsFan

  • Posts: 37010
  • dogs in uncensored, nudes in gameday
There are really good private schools all over the DC area, except for perhaps PG.  For public school systems, however, Fairfax and Montgomery are heads above the rest.  I doubt any private schools can match TJ. 

You mean US News and World Report's #1 school? No, they can't.

MoCo beats Fairfax overall, IMO, by Richard Mongtomery is no TJ.

Offline GMUNat

  • Posts: 5193
You mean US News and World Report's #1 school? No, they can't.

MoCo beats Fairfax overall, IMO, by Richard Mongtomery is no TJ.


MoCo only beats out Fairfax in having a lot higher taxes that rapes its citizens.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 14609
You mean US News and World Report's #1 school? No, they can't.

MoCo beats Fairfax overall, IMO, by Richard Mongtomery is no TJ.

Whitman was when I was in MoCo though

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 27613
  • Hell yes!
MoCo beats Fairfax overall, IMO,

They're both excellent systems overall.  I don't know which one is better, or how one could tell.  Why do you think MontCo is better overall?  Both Fairfax and MontCo had 3 schools in the top 100.  My son's school, Oakton, was a silver class (top 200).  Virginia had 18 Gold, Silver and Bronze overall vs. 11 in Maryland, and I presume nearly all of those schools were in the two counties.


Online KnorrForYourMoney

  • Posts: 13906
  • Lerners = Bluth family
This thread has taken a random turn.

Is John Henry speaking out in a sort of bid for commish when Selig steps down?

Online blue911

  • Posts: 16250
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/high-schools/2008/12/04/virginia-school-tops-the-best-high-schools-list.html

Thomas Jefferson


Oh that TJ. You would think that Albert Einstein would be on that list somewhere. Any idea why they didn't rate Nebraska & Oklahoma?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 17196
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
This thread has taken a random turn.

Is John Henry speaking out in a sort of bid for commish when Selig steps down?

I don't think so. He's actually siding with Boras against the MLB company line.  When Boras said teams were taking their revenue sharing and just pocketing it instead of trying to field competitive teams, MLB blasted him in response.  It probably does not do henry any good with the corporate owned teams or with the subsidized teams to try to push them to spend more on their ball clubs. 

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 27613
  • Hell yes!
Joe Sheehan, Baseball Prospectus, weighs in on Henry's comments.    Excerpted from an article titled "The Unbearable Lightness of Being the Red Sox"


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9819

December 3, 2009
Quote

The other story of note was John Henry proposing changes to how MLB redistributes money. Shockingly, his plan would have the greatest effect on the Yankees, as it focuses on high payrolls rather than high revenues. It was self-interest disguised as economics, and should be condemned as such. Henry correctly questions the efficacy of wealth transfers approaching a billion dollars to a number of teams that do not appear to be using that money to change their competitiveness. His solutions, however, are unoriginal—yet another call for guaranteeing a portion of revenues to the players in exchange for payroll constraints—and, as all owner plans have always done, fails to address the central problem.

Henry is a smart man, a successful man, a man who has made his wealth based on knowledge of finance and economics and the use of hard data. So why won't a man like that acknowledge what outsiders such as Keith Woolner and Derek Zumsteg have known for years: that the problem MLB faces isn't an issue of payroll or revenues, but the differences in potential revenue that have developed across markets in the past 30 years? A man with the background of John Henry has to understand that central point, and yet he presents a plan that would do absolutely nothing to address it.

Smart, serious people have presented well-crafted solutions that directly address this problem. The first owner to take up one of these solutions, to back a plan that has nothing to do with limiting labor costs or hindering the competitiveness of a rival or dipping into the public till is the owner I will take seriously on this topic. The problem of differing incentives across markets is the one that drives everything else, that makes it profitable and even sensible for the Royals and Pirates and Marlins to be run in the soul-crushing way they've been run for more than a decade. MLB has never once attempted to address this, and the plans they've enacted have made the problem worse. Until fixing the marginal-revenue problem becomes the game's top priority—and it is very reparable—no equity among markets is possible.

I want to know why one of the smartest, most accomplished, most economically-literate men in baseball won't embrace a real solution.


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 17196
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Dug this one out now because it is interesting to look at "luxury tax" and competitiveness tactics after a month of FA signings. 

here is a clip from today's Cafardo
Quote
Contract creativity can keep you away from the threshold
Creativity is key this time of the year. It’s tough to sign high-end players such as Bay and Matt Holliday, but if Bay wants to return to the Red Sox and if the Red Sox want to avoid paying a luxury tax, they and Bay’s agent would have to get very creative on a contract. The Sox, according to major league sources, are debating whether they’ll go for it and pay luxury tax money, knowing they have up to $48 million coming off the books at season’s end (Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell, Ortiz, Jason Varitek, and Julio Lugo).

While Boston’s exact payroll figure is not yet known, the Red Sox appear to be moving closer to the $170 million tax threshold. If they find a creative way to keep Bay and still stay under the threshold, it would handcuff them in trying to make a midseason deal for, say, Gonzalez.

Yet Bay and Holliday still intrigue the Sox. The addition of Holliday, whom the Sox offered a five-year, $82 million contract, would mean paying a luxury tax.

A couple of agents see one way to add Bay at close to the $60 million over four years he turned down is by offering a lower-base one-year deal with most of the money backloaded in three option years. That way only the lower base salary of one year would be tacked onto the payroll.

The Sox showed creativity when they protected themselves on John Lackey’s deal by adding an option for a sixth year should Lackey miss any time because of elbow surgery. Lackey would have to play at the major league minimum in the sixth year should he miss time with such an injury.

On the other end is low-salary creativity. Baseball executives believe there will be some great value players available in free agency into mid-January, with several established players signing minor league deals.

“The Pirates will load up on players like these,’’ said one National League GM. “There’ll be good value, players who can fill a role for your club.’’

One NL scout believes that you can have too many players with minor league deals and invitations to major league camp.

“It can definitely create kind of a crowded situation sometimes in spring training, but sometimes you don’t want to miss out on taking a look at players who may be able to fill a role,’’ he said.


I've noted that the wide-spread assumption that the Red Sox have been the #2 spender by a wide margin the past few years is wrong and that the Henry ownership group generally tries to operate with the tax threshold as a team cap.  In fact, the past two years they have been #4, and this year they were within about $2m of the #6 team.  That's why this year's pushing up to and possibly above the threshold is interesting.   

I read an insight into why they try to operate below the cap that made some sense.  The first year you exceed the cap, you have to pay $1.22 for a player whose value on the general market is $1.00.  If you are the NYY, and you exceed the threshold every year, you pay $1.40 for every player that puts you over the threshold.  A one year exceedance for a contender may make sense because the marginal gain of the win might be a playoff spot, but a team (other than NYY, NYM, and maybe the LA teams) can't afford to stay there and subsidize their prime opponents, like the Rays.  As the article note, if the Sox do a 2 year budget, they might see the money coming off the books next year as justifying a one year exceedance.

I would not have posted this but for the additional discussion of low budget strategy.  The article echoes what every one else has observed:  with the continued price crash, look for bargains on hitters like a Damon or some of the 2d basemen that face a lack of spots to land.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 27613
  • Hell yes!
People focus a bit on the Red Sox because they are a generally a smart, well run organization, unlike the Mets and Cubs, who may spend more but do it stupidly.  Therefore they are more threatening to lower budget teams. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 17196
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
That's kind of why I found it interesting to see how they approach the luxury tax threshold and budget. 

It will be interesting to see how Pittsburgh in fact approaches the players who are still around when the blue light specials start.  There's an argument that a small budget team could sign a few of the cheapos for the purpose of dealing when contenders have depth problems.  Certainly a lot of Nats fans thought that was what should have happened in 07 with Dmitri and Chad, among others.