Author Topic: Another rare offseason opportunity? What are the Nats prepared to do?  (Read 2310 times)

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Offline shoeshineboy

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Last season was a rare situation. The economy actually depressed FA prices and had teams looking to get payroll relief. The Nats were buyers in a buyers' market. Whether due to Bowden's incompetence or the Lerner/Kasten financial constraints, this opportunity was squandered.

Now the Nats are looking like they not only have a real GM in place that at a minimum won't be a detriment, and they are still buyers in a buyers' market with payroll coming off the balance sheets. They do have a fair amount of players hitting arbitration years, so that will add to the budget needed. However, they may find that most of their arbitration eligible players aren't worth dealing with at all and take their chances with the open market.

This snippet from Buster Olney on the state of the league's financial system means that a team like the Nats may actually get a second chance to be active in a rare year where inventory is high, prices are lower due to the economy, and they have limited long-term financial liabilities. What will they do? What will they do?

Quote
Baseball's financial structure appears to have reached a tipping point that can be simply defined. "The arbitration process is now outdated," said a highly-ranked executive, "because the players can get more money in arbitration than they would through free agency."

So now teams are about to adjust to this reality, and this is why multiple general managers expect that there will be dozens of young players with three, four and five years of major league experience who will be cut loose in the next 41 days, rather than offered arbitration. Not a handful, but dozens.

I went through the rosters with some executives over the last 48 hours and counted 93 solid non-tender candidates -- players who simply won't be offered contracts for 2010 by their current teams. If the final numbers come close to that figure, this would mean that there would be close to 300 veteran players looking for jobs this winter, a staggering number that will inevitably depress the asking prices for free agents.

Offline sportsfan882

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Do you think the Nats will step up to the plate and get us some quality players?

Offline shoeshineboy

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Do you think the Nats will step up to the late and get us some quality players?

Rizzo has his shopping list and seems to want to fill some very specific needs. With this opportunity, there is no need not to fill at least three or four spots with FA acquisitions. With a trade or two and an overseas signing, the impact should be significant. It comes down to the Lerners. Rizzo is not stupid. He has wanted this job for a long time and knows that he must produce a winner to maintain the position and not squander his chances to have a GM-level position here or somewhere else for the remainder of his career. The Nats were the end of the line for Jimbo. No one else wanted him as a GM. It's the beginning for Rizzo. He better have bargained for real financial backing or he was a fool for taking the job. The Lerners need to open the purse strings. They don't need 7yr/150M dollar marquee players. Just sign some real legit major league talent for once.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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SSB, I'm so disappointed in you. :doh: This is a prediction from Buster Olney, and you're trying to base a discussion off of it?

His prediction is totally wrong.  No way do teams let go of "more than a handful" of good, young players who are up for arbitration.  It will not happen.

Offline houston-nat

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MLBTR has a list of non-tender candidates: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/10/nontender-candidates.html

There are a few names that stick out to me:
Garrett Atkins
Boof Bonser
Brian Bruney
Lance Cormier
Chad Gaudin
Conor Jackson
Noah Lowry
John Maine
Sergio Mitre
Dioner Navarro

If the Rays are foolish enough to let Navarro go, we could solve our catcher problem pretty quickly. There are a lot of decent bullpen ideas on the list, too.

Offline ronnynat

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^ Atkins would be a great pickup, but we don't have a place to put him. I'm pretty sure we're going to keep Dunn at first.

Didn't Maine have a pretty bad injury this season?

Offline houston-nat

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Didn't Maine have a pretty bad injury this season?
From Wikipedia:
Quote
In January, the Mets avoided arbitration, signing Maine to a one-year, $2.6 million contract.[5] Maine initially struggled coming off the shoulder surgery, posting a 5.40 ERA to go with a 1–2 record in four April starts. However, he bounced back in his six starts in May, going 4–1 with an ERA of 2.75, nearly half of his April ERA. After a poor start in June, he was placed on the 15-day disabled list due to arm fatigue.[6] Maine would stay on the DL with arm fatigue and numerous setbacks for a long amount of time. He eventually came back in mid-September and was eased back into the rotation, going more than 5 innings only once. In his last start of the season against the Astros, he went 7.0 innings letting up one earned run with 7 strikeouts, with that encouraging start he gave the Mets more certainty that he can return to his '07 form in the 2010 season.[7] He finished the 2009 season with a 7-6 win/loss record throwing 81.1 innings with an era of 4.43.

Tim Dierkes said he thought Maine was a longshot to be non-tendered.

Offline shoeshineboy

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SSB, I'm so disappointed in you. :doh: This is a prediction from Buster Olney, and you're trying to base a discussion off of it?

His prediction is totally wrong.  No way do teams let go of "more than a handful" of good, young players who are up for arbitration.  It will not happen.

Olney may be tool, but this isn't just about crazy predictions, it's a matter of economics. It's also why there is a question mark in the title. Odds of it being the motherload of FAs Olney may suggest may be limited, but there is likely to be more than in the past not unlike last year's crop. The point is that market forces are likely to make this offseason another buyers' market compared to years past and the Nats are in a nice position to take advantage. Will they prepared to do it.

Offline HalfSmokes

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I'd give Conner Jackson a shot

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I agree that Boof Bonser is a name that always has stuck out.

I like Gaudin, maybe more in the bullpen than as a starter, but that sort of flexibility is not bad.

Offline HalfSmokes

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I agree that Boof Bonser is a name that always has stuck out.

I like Gaudin, maybe more in the bullpen than as a starter, but that sort of flexibility is not bad.

Boof is the anti-Lannan, the guy who the underlying stats say should break out, but never does

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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found this from Fangraphs, which I quote too much, but think it is along the lines of what SSB is talking about.  Essentially, Cameron asserts that bringing on a few veterans to make the team respectable has value even for a non-contender.  Think of building a fan base like building a minor league system:  a mulit-year effort that can create value down the line.  A fan base gives you revenue to spend to fill gaps, while a minor league system gives you cheap assets to trade or establish a core around which to build.  The article is focused on the currently-rumored but supposedly-imminent Aki Iwamura to the Pirates trade.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-value-of-a-win-to-a-losing-team
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The Pirates aren't contenders in 2010, and will readily admit that they're still in full on rebuilding mode. In general, whenever a team in that situation makes a move for an older player to fill a big league roster spot, there's a swath of fans who claim that the team is wasting resources. This argument actually was used in favor of the Pirates decision to deal Nyjer Morgan and Nate McLouth this summer - they downgraded the roster but got younger in the process, and the wins that were lost by subtracting McLouth and Morgan were written off as unimportant.

I think this argument takes a kernel of truth - the varying marginal value of a win - to an extreme that doesn't reflect reality. There is certainly less value in a win that takes you from a 69 to 70 win team than an 89 to 90 win team, but the value of the 70th win is not zero. It may have no real value from the perspective of playoff odds in the next season, but for the long term health of the franchise, those wins that take you from laughingstock to mediocre are still important, especially as they relate to revenue.

While rebuilding teams have to look towards the future, they also have to avoid the death spiral that can occur when a small revenue team fails to put a good product on the field, drives away the fan base, and in the process lowers future revenues. There is a financial cost to losing that is magnified when teams are uniformly awful, and that cost can inhibit a team's growth potential in the long run. Developing a fan base is in many ways like developing a farm system - it requires a present term investment that theoretically returns greater future value.

A series of moves that takes us from 59 wins to 75 has value to the Nats. Let's see the strategy in the current market.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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found this from Fangraphs, which I quote too much, but think it is along the lines of what SSB is talking about.  Essentially, Cameron asserts that bringing on a few veterans to make the team respectable has value even for a non-contender.
I've said this many a'times, but that notion is still mocked by some around here.

Offline JMW IV

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I've said this many a'times, but that notion is still mocked by some around here.

by who?

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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by who?
Every time I say that we should get free agents in order to attempt incremental progress, someone acts like I'm advocating just throwing money around.  I don't remember who's done it every time I say that, but last time Minty had some wise ass comment about it.

Offline The Chief

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Whoever this "some/someone/people/everyone" guy is, he sure does talk a ton of crap according to the told-you-so club.  This is one point where I agree with SF (even though he's one of the worst offenders) - I wish people would lay out their opinions solidly and defend them reasonably, rather than make lame jokes and casting aspersions on the ethereal bogeymen.

Offline JMW IV

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aspersions....ethereal....

oh snap, Chief broke out the thesaurus on your asses.....;)

Offline The Chief

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oh snap, Chief broke out the thesaurus on your asses.....;)

I just have a large vocabulary.  The problem is about half of the time I pick words out of the air and use them incorrectly :-[

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Whoever this "some/someone/people/everyone" guy is, he sure does talk a ton of crap according to the told-you-so club.  This is one point where I agree with SF (even though he's one of the worst offenders) - I wish people would lay out their opinions solidly and defend them reasonably, rather than make lame jokes and casting aspersions on the ethereal bogeymen.
I gave an example.  Do you just have some wiseass, contradictory comment for everything I say?

Offline The Chief

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I gave an example.  Do you just have some wiseass, contradictory comment for everything I say?

Are you freaking dense?  I can't help it if you think everything I say is directed solely at you. 

Offline sportsfan882

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:rofl: speaking of dense, where is your good buddy DCFan, chief?

Offline The Chief

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:rofl: speaking of dense, where is your good buddy DCFan, chief?

Beats me.  He's popped in a few times in the last couple of months, but I have no idea what he's been up to.  Off cavorting with spidernat, perhaps.

Offline PANatsFan

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Beats me.  He's popped in a few times in the last couple of months, but I have no idea what he's been up to.  Off cavorting with spidernat, perhaps.

I'm sure they're tiptoeing through the tulips right now :lmao: Awesome image.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Are you freaking dense?  I can't help it if you think everything I say is directed solely at you. 
Are you freaking dense?  This is like the third time you've picked at a post of mine in the last 48 hours.

Offline The Chief

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Are you freaking dense?  This is like the third time you've picked at a post of mine in the last 48 hours.

Just because I happen to disagree with the same person 3 times in a 48-hour span doesn't mean I'm "picking", but all the same, if you feel persecuted, then I apologize.