Author Topic: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4  (Read 26964 times)

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Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #150: October 04, 2009, 09:10:35 PM »
this was the longest game in nats history in terms of innings. wow.

Bergmann and Clippard want Rig back:

Quote
But it's pretty clear to right-hander Jason Bergmann that he wants Riggleman back as manager. When the media criticized Bergmann's performance, Riggleman would be the one giving Bergmann words of encouragement.

"Unfortunately, the decision is not up to us. Everybody played hard. Riggleman did a great job managing us and keeping us together. We responded," Bergmann said. "His style was a bit different. He communicated a little bit more, but he was fantastic. I appreciate what he has done for me. I think a lot of guys will say the same thing."

Tyler Clippard, who became Riggleman's innings eater out of the bullpen, said: "He has seen what we have. He has a good feel for our team. He has been here all year. With him coming back, he can hit the ground running with this team, so I hope they keep him."


Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #151: October 04, 2009, 09:18:13 PM »
Damn a 7 game win streak to close out the season after locking up the #1 pick. Good to see Desmond play well the reaminder of the season. Heres to a great offseason and an entertaining October.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #152: October 04, 2009, 09:38:55 PM »
His overall numbers ain't that hot Chief. they are solid but not as good as they should have been.

We thought we had a .300, 30+ HR player in Willingham.
Only an idiot would've predicted that from Willingham.  He was a .270, 25-HR player.
I was watching our last series down in FLA and the Extra Innings pkg. had the Marlins announcers on and they were saying how popular Willingham was in the clubhouse and the front office.  Then added how they got the feeling that Josh would be back with the club someday.  I thought, fine, great.  Give us some good value and he's yours. Overpay for him.  Fine with us.
Willingham and a throw-in for Josh Johnson.  We can sign Holliday.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #153: October 04, 2009, 09:43:28 PM »
Willingham and a throw-in for Josh Johnson.  We can sign Holliday.

From a team that dumped him once already due to salary concerns?

Offline PatsNats28

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #154: October 04, 2009, 10:45:57 PM »
From a team that dumped him once already due to salary concerns?

Fine Willingham, some cash, and a decent prospect (one of our pitchers?)

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #155: October 04, 2009, 11:29:58 PM »
We thought we had a .300, 30+ HR player in Willingham.

Who's we?

Willingham performed exactly to his career averages. In six seasons, he's average .264/.363/.478/.841 with 22 HR's and 69 RBI's. (And that's excluding his first two years where he barely played... that would have made his seasonal stats even worse... making this year look that much better.)

Josh went with .260/.367/.499/.866 with 24 HR's and 61 RBI's.

Obviously, he did exactly what was expected of him.

No one but you said he'd hit .300 with 30 HR's and 100 RBI's.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #156: October 04, 2009, 11:39:03 PM »
that's just lies.

he was batting .300 and on a pace for well over 30 HRs. Everyone had gone from wanting to trade him at the deadline to heralding him as a cornerstone player.

Him and Dunn were on pace for career seasons back in July and they just finished off the season poorly to finish with their usual season averages.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #157: October 04, 2009, 11:43:11 PM »
They just reverted to the mean.  If we have to look at Zims stats as a whole and not isolate his hot and cold streaks, we should do that for Dunn and Hammer.  All three had very nice seasons. 

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #158: October 04, 2009, 11:46:25 PM »
They had solid seasons but not career or overly spectacular seasons.

If Dunn had finished with a ~.280 BA and 40+ HRs you could have concluded that he had a career season.

Willingham should have finished with ~30 HRs and .280 BA.


Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #159: October 04, 2009, 11:49:45 PM »
That's fine.  We weren't looking for career seasons out of them.  A career season out of them changes virtually nothing in the end.  I'll be thrilled if we get the same thing from them next year. 

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #160: October 04, 2009, 11:49:55 PM »
that's just lies.

he was batting .300 and on a pace for well over 30 HRs. Everyone had gone from wanting to trade him at the deadline to heralding him as a cornerstone player.

Him and Dunn were on pace for career seasons back in July and they just finished off the season poorly to finish with their usual season averages.

Are you saying that Willingham's career numbers are all lies then? Because, I'm pretty damn sure you can't fudge season statistics.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #161: October 04, 2009, 11:55:14 PM »
That's fine.  We weren't looking for career seasons out of them.  A career season out of them changes virtually nothing in the end.  I'll be thrilled if we get the same thing from them next year. 

This.

They had solid seasons but not career or overly spectacular seasons.

If Dunn had finished with a ~.280 BA and 40+ HRs you could have concluded that he had a career season.

Willingham should have finished with ~30 HRs and .280 BA.



What would a career season have done for us? Like Linty said, he performed to what was expected. Hes a consistent player each year, thats something to be wanted from our players. If he does it again next year, we wont have to worry about his offense.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #162: October 04, 2009, 11:57:00 PM »
All I see when SF talks is: "If Zimmerman does it, it's a career season, if Willingham or Dunn do it, they are average."

You need a serious reality check, SF.  You're almost as bad as AZ, and I'm not exaggerating.

I could point out any number of factors proving you wrong, and you'd just twist your way out of it :roll:

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #163: October 04, 2009, 11:58:32 PM »
look at the freaking numbers, chief.

Dunn and Willingham had solid seasons but were these All-Star caliber or GREAT seasons? No.

It sucks that both had a rough end to the season because both were on pace for GREAT overall seasons.


Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #164: October 05, 2009, 12:03:53 AM »
What about Dunn's numbers say he wasn't an all-star? Other than not getting voted in to a popularity contest... you can't tell me Dunn's not one of the top 20 hitters in the game.

Don't believe me? How about stats?



Dunn's offensive value is even higher that the FotF.

Or is that more nonsense?

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #165: October 05, 2009, 12:05:44 AM »
Linty I know it's maddening but you'll really feel a lot better if you just realize that SF is cuckoo for Zimmerman puffs and refuses to acknowledge anything positive that Dunn does, ever.  I know it doesn't make sense at all, but that's just how it is.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #166: October 05, 2009, 12:08:12 AM »
yawn. He is not one of the top 20 hitters in the game. nope.

He's one of the top 20 power hitters, I will give you that.


Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #167: October 05, 2009, 12:10:05 AM »
Bwhahaha. So now stats/sabermetrics lie?

Chief, as an aside, how do you put spoiler tags in post on WNFF? I'm having trouble doing it.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #168: October 05, 2009, 12:10:18 AM »
Linty I know it's maddening but you'll really feel a lot better if you just realize that SF is cuckoo for Zimmerman puffs and refuses to acknowledge anything positive that Dunn does, ever.  I know it doesn't make sense at all, but that's just how it is.
yawn. He is not one of the top 20 hitters in the game. nope.

He's one of the top 20 power hitters, I will give you that.



See what I mean, Linty? :lol:

The kid has no capacity for rational/logical thought on this matter.  He's a slightly less ridiculous version of AZ.

Bwhahaha. So now stats/sabermetrics lie?

Chief, as an aside, how do you put spoiler tags in post on WNFF? I'm having trouble doing it.

I don't think SMF has native spoiler tags.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #169: October 05, 2009, 12:11:15 AM »
jesus, your own statsheet is damning as hell towards dunn :lmao:

1.2 WAR, -35.5 fielding, 11.9 RAR, "$5.4 Dollars"

jesus

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #170: October 05, 2009, 12:13:33 AM »
Bwhahaha. So now stats/sabermetrics lie?

Chief, as an aside, how do you put spoiler tags in post on WNFF? I'm having trouble doing it.
There's the problem.  SF is a moron when it comes to statistics/evaluation and his brain explodes when you go beyond batting average.  It isn't even worth dignifying his arguments.
From a team that dumped him once already due to salary concerns?
I was joking.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #171: October 05, 2009, 12:14:07 AM »
jesus, your own statsheet is darning as hell towards dunn :lmao:

1.2 WAR, -35.5 fielding, 11.9 RAR, "$5.4 Dollars"

jesus

:doh: :lol:  :rofl:

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #172: October 05, 2009, 12:16:41 AM »
He has a point, though.  WAR is a comprehensive rating system that accounts for defense.  1.2 is a pathetic number, and not the WAR of someone you'd consider an all star.

Personally, though, I think WAR is flawed.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #173: October 05, 2009, 12:17:53 AM »
He has a point, though.  WAR is a comprehensive rating system that accounts for defense.  1.2 is a pathetic number, and not the WAR of someone you'd consider an all star.

He's welcome to point that out, but...

Quote
Personally, though, I think WAR is flawed.

This.

WAR is such an abstract stat that I'm not sure how seriously it can really be taken.  I'm all for noting Dunn's defensive deficiencies when considering his overall value as a player, but we both know that quoting WAR is just SF "Dunn's defense cost us 30 runs in the first 1/4 of the season" grasping at straws because he can't stand to acknowledge that a career (offensive) year for Zimmerman is a career AVERAGE year for Dunn.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 4
« Reply #174: October 05, 2009, 12:19:26 AM »
jesus, your own statsheet is damning as hell towards dunn :lmao:

1.2 WAR, -35.5 fielding, 11.9 RAR, "$5.4 Dollars"

jesus

You do know your whole argument was based only on OFFENSIVE stats.

What does Dunn's defense have to do with his offensive value.

Oh. Wait.