Author Topic: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2  (Read 16924 times)

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Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #300: September 17, 2009, 12:10:42 PM »
The Nationals may need Lackey, but it isn't reciprocal. Money will probably be a consideration only if he isn't offered a fair deal from a team in contention.   

i'm sure he will, but we'll have to go overboard and we all know this.  that's what you get when you lose 100+ games in back-to-back seasons.  another reason why i'm not happy with our ownership.  they brought this on themselves.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #301: September 17, 2009, 12:17:45 PM »
i'm sure he will, but we'll have to go overboard and we all know this.  that's what you get when you lose 100+ games in back-to-back seasons.  another reason why i'm not happy with our ownership.  they brought this on themselves.

Define overboard. To me A.J Burnett's deal is overboard yet C.C. Sabathia's isn't.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #302: September 17, 2009, 12:23:43 PM »
Define overboard. To me A.J Burnett's deal is overboard yet C.C. Sabathia's isn't.

again as much as i appreciated our efforts in getting teix, we didn't go overboard with the offer.  as for burnett, the yanks went overboard for no reason as nobody else was really competing w/ them for that high of an asking price.

if you're asking for numbers speak, example:

if a contender offers star player: 5 years/60 million, we're going to have to offer: 5 years/65-70 million, or 6 years/75 million. 

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #303: September 17, 2009, 12:32:52 PM »
still waiting for an excuse from SF on nieves bonehead play that put us in a 1-0 hole ...

btw livan pitched well, i wouldn't mind signing him for next year as a back end of the rotation option.
Nieves thought he had Howard at 2B. could have been called out. maybe should have held on to the ball but it was close.

Livan's bunt was far worse.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #304: September 17, 2009, 12:33:56 PM »
it doesn't, but in our case, when we need all the help we can ... it's a step in the right direction.
we aren't getting lackey or anyone close to him, period.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #305: September 17, 2009, 12:37:41 PM »
Nieves thought he had Howard at 2B. could have been called out. maybe should have held on to the ball but it was close.

Livan's bunt was far worse.

lol it wasn't anywhere close.  and nieves put us down 1-0.  you lose.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #306: September 17, 2009, 12:45:00 PM »
No matter how much you think money solves everything, Anna Nicole Smith still died fat and drunk.

Actually she was deathly thin by the time she died since she stopped eating and starting doing drugs exclusively.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #307: September 17, 2009, 12:46:05 PM »
Actually she was deathly thin by the time she died since she stopped eating and starting doing drugs exclusively.

Then she wasn't drunk?

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #308: September 17, 2009, 12:52:49 PM »
again as much as i appreciated our efforts in getting teix, we didn't go overboard with the offer.  as for burnett, the yanks went overboard for no reason as nobody else was really competing w/ them for that high of an asking price.

if you're asking for numbers speak, example:

if a contender offers star player: 5 years/60 million, we're going to have to offer: 5 years/65-70 million, or 6 years/75 million. 


But you aren't putting a value on Lackey. I think Lackey is worth Derek Lowe/Mark Buehrle money (4/56-60) but he's worth Burnett money (5/81) to the Nationals.


Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #309: September 17, 2009, 01:23:14 PM »
But you aren't putting a value on Lackey. I think Lackey is worth Derek Lowe/Mark Buehrle money (4/56-60) but he's worth Burnett money (5/81) to the Nationals.

I posted this in the frontline starting pitcher thread ...

Jon Heyman, an unnamed agent and unnamed GM predicted what Lackey would get here are the numbers:

Agent: $75 million, 5 years.
GM: $60 million, 4 years.
Me: $85 million, 5 years.

If we want him we should offer 5 years/$75-80 million like the agent is predicting.  I think he is that good.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #310: September 17, 2009, 01:37:07 PM »
I posted this in the frontline starting pitcher thread ...

Jon Heyman, an unnamed agent and unnamed GM predicted what Lackey would get here are the numbers:

Agent: $75 million, 5 years.
GM: $60 million, 4 years.
Me: $85 million, 5 years.

If we want him we should offer 5 years/$75-80 million like the agent is predicting.  I think he is that good.

Then we're in agreement. The Nats should go after Lackey and offer a substantial contract but not do something Zitosque

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #311: September 17, 2009, 01:38:33 PM »
Good thing about Lackey is he already has the ring.  It might be all about the Benjamins with him.

Online blue911

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #312: September 17, 2009, 01:41:58 PM »
Good thing about Lackey is he already has the ring.  It might be all about the Benjamins with him.

He's going to get a pile of dough. If I was Lackey, I'd want to play for the Rangers. He's from Texas, no state income taxes and a chance to shove it up the Angels butt multiple times a year.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Phillies, Game 2
« Reply #313: September 17, 2009, 03:42:52 PM »
Here's a very, very detailed and sound scouting report on John Lackey for those who don't know him too well want to read up on him (it's from '07 but pretty darn accurate.)

http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=292

Quote
Note: This report was written for a potential Angels playoff match-up with the Red Sox

John Lackey
Starting Pitcher
Los Angeles Angels
Observed: September 2007
Player/Body Type: Tall, strong pitcher’s build

Category - PREMIUM
Lackey is a tall, durable right hander who has become the most dependable starter on the Angels staff - and one of the dependable starters in major league baseball. He’s an intense competitor who pitches with a plan and executes his pitches. He works at a good quick tempo and establishes his fastball while getting ahead in the count to most hitters.

Overall
His consistent mechanics and release make his pitches tough to read, generating above average deception. His best outpitch is a hard slider that gets a lot of hitters to chase pitches down and out of the strike zone. Lackey refuses to give into the hitter in any situation. At times he’ll get frustrated when facing pesky contact types that get deep in the count. For the Red Sox that means Dustin Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis.

Strengths
• Above average command of fastball, slider, curve and change-up.
• Pitches with a plan and executes well.
• Intense competitor on the mound.
• Ability to make quality adjustments during the game

Weaknesses
• Tends to throw a lot of pitches.
• Will challenge too many hitters. Sometimes it’s best to pitch around certain batters.
• Can become too emotional.

FASTBALL (88-94)
Movement: Lackey will throw four-  and two-seam fastballs. His two-seam fastball will show tailing action and some late sink. He will cut his fastball on occasion to both righthanded and lefthanded hitters to his gloveside.
Command: He uses both sides of the plate equally, and he’ll climb the ladder with his four-seam fastball with two strikes on the batter.
Plan: He uses his fastball early in the game to get ahead of hitters. Most of his fastballs first time around the order will be down and away to both righthanded and lefthanded hitters.

CURVE (74-79)
Movement: Lackey has two types of curveballs, a 12-6 and an 11-5 type break. They have average rotation and depth. With two strikes on the batter he is capable of adding velocity with a shorter quicker curve.
Command: He is capable of commanding his curve to both sides of the plate and throws it when  attempting to get swings and misses.
Plan: He does a good job of changing the eye level of the hitters with this pitch, and early in the count he tends to use the outer half of the plate with his curve.

SLIDER (83-87)
Movement: His slider shows quick late break. He is capable of changing speeds with this pitch as an adjustment. It’s a plus major league pitch, and it’s become his go-to pitch.
Command: Lackey commands his slider to both sides of the plate and is capable of trolling for RH swings off the plate
Plan: Lackey has the confidence in his slider to use it at any point in the count. Hitters are likely to see his slider at two specific points: with two strikes and the second time around the order.

CHANGEUP (82-85)
Movement: Lackey’s changeup has average tailing action and some sink. He’s capable of taking a bit off the velocity and adding more sink in later counts.
Command: He’s best able to command his changeup when he keeps it down in the zone and to his armside of the plate.
Plan: This year Lackey has gained a lot of confidence in his changeup and is throwing it more often. He generally throws it to lefthanded hitters.

BEST MATCHUP
John Lackey is capable of overpowering hitters by using his fastball to each side of the plate as well as up in the zone to finish a hitter off. Because JD Drew and David Ortiz have holes in the strike zone highlighting areas above their belt, Lackey matches up well vs. both hitters. Look for high, hard fastballs when he’s got two strikes on these players.

WORST MATCHUP
Pesky contact-type hitters such as Dustin Pedroia and Jacoby Ellsbury who are capable of using the entire field and do a good job of battling with two strikes will give John Lackey the most problems. Pedroia and Ellsbury both do a good job of putting the ball in play and can handle the high strike very well. They will be difficult outs for the Angels #1 starter.

TENDENCIES
Works to get ahead with his fastball and sets up off-speed pitches as his out-pitches.
With runners in scoring position, likes to use his slider, which he is able to vary in depth and speed.

HIGH POWERED STATS
30 Games: Lackey is a workhorse. He takes the ball every 5 days.
210 Innings: In addition to taking the ball every 5 days, he goes deep into each game. This keeps the Angels in games and keeps the bullpen rested.
50 Walks: Lackey is a strike thrower and doesn’t like to walk batters. He consistently challenges hitters.

DEFENSE
Lackey moves off the mound well when fielding balls.
His times to the plate with a runner at first base are average, but he varies his times when in the set position to keep the runner at bay.

KEYS TO SUCCESS:
John Lackey must establish his fastball early and get ahead in the count. He needs to hammer the strike zone but mind the danger areas of each potential HR threat, namely Ortiz, Ramirez, and Lowell. When he is ahead in the count Lackey maintains more weapons to put hitters away with than most. His concentration shouldn’t be distracted by the basestealing threats of Ellsbury and Crisp, as Mathis is quite capable of handling the running game. An umpire with a forgiving strike zone will favor Lackey, as the Red Sox hitters are more patient than the Angels offense.

vs Boston Red Sox
The Sox have a variety of weapons including the additional speed of Crisp and Ellsbury. Although they aren’t a legitimate base-stealing team, the Red Sox have added another component to their arsenal. Boston has many hitters capable of getting deep in the count and wearing a pitcher down, and the under-rated power of Ortiz, Ramirez, and Lowell have been the deciding factors in 2007.

Pitcher Plan
For John Lackey to be effective he must get ahead of hitters early in the count by getting strike one with his first pitch. This will enable him to utilize his variety of outpitches. He must throw strikes allowing his very consistent defense to work at a good pace behind him. Jeff Mathis is very capable of handling Boston’s running game, which is one less worry for Lackey.

(Image removed from quote.)