Author Topic: Hardware/OS Geek Thread  (Read 23297 times)

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Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #275: October 22, 2009, 03:34:00 PM »
people are hyped for 7 because it is

Only ignorant people.  Vista was fine.  Initial support for it was not.  A new kernel always spells headaches for the consumer thanks to lazy OEMs and developers.  The followup incremental release is usually smooth sailing.  See 2000, Windows; XP, Windows.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #276: October 22, 2009, 04:13:06 PM »
Only ignorant people.  Vista was fine.  Initial support for it was not.  A new kernel always spells headaches for the consumer thanks to lazy OEMs and developers.  The followup incremental release is usually smooth sailing.  See 2000, Windows; XP, Windows.
See also Cheetah, Mac OS X v10.0

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #277: October 22, 2009, 05:41:40 PM »
I wouldn't say Vista was fine at its initial release.  There were reports of several pieces of hardware that worked fine in the final RC that didn't run at all with the final release.  The only ones we noted were relatively minor - audio and scanners, that ran fine in the RC, but not with the final release.  I think it was HP that went ballistic because their Vista machines worked with the RC, but not the final release, and then spent months in a nag fest with MSFT rather than writing new drivers.  Although it shouldn't have been necessary to re-write the drivers between RC and final release, for HP to then take months to fix an issue that should have been resolved in two days was inexcusable.   So, for HP not fixing the problem promptly once it was discovered, I will strongly agree that there were lazy OEM developers that were at least in part to blame for the resistance to Vista (though, that cited as only a minor cause for resistance).  In that case, while HP didn't create the problem, it certainly exacerbated it.  While our audio driver issues were resolved promptly, it took several months for HP to get around to getting their scanners to work.  Some of their Vista printer drivers, most notably those for their piece of crap known as the Color Laserjet 2605dn, still suck (it can take 30 to 40 minutes per page of a PDF file under Vista, about half that under XP, and instant from Linux - though the one Nats announcer (Bob?) would appropriately call the printer a "jam job").

But that wasn't my initial big beef about Vista.  What I didn't like was MSFT having no idea about how to implement security while maintaining functionality.  Out of the box, it was a productivity nightmare.  Also, the implementation of IPv6 was half-a$$ed (upon its initial release, that alone was enough to make Vista unsuitable for the casual user).  But, at least it, like the security "features" was a known issue throughout the RC period as well, and the workaround was well known in the tech community.  Still, it was a bit of a shock those kinds of issues made it through to the final release.  After tweaking for an hour or so, including disabling all Vista's security "features" and installing third-party software that both actually worked and allowed the user to work, Vista ran pretty well.  We had about a 15-page list of things that needed to be tweaked on Vista out of the box.  It wasn't that big of a deal on a relatively few number of machines in a small business and where everyone is capable of implementing the tweaks, but it was time unnecessarily wasted due to Vista not quite being ready for prime time out of the box.  In a larger business where relatively few IT personnel have to implement the tweaks on thousands of machines, it could be cost and calendar-time prohibitive (the latter virtually always cited as the reason to stick with XP in those organizations).  While an unnecessary pain, for us it was a worthwhile one.  We were early adopters of Vista, having it on front lines immediately upon its release.  For times when I had to work with Windows, within a few days of its release, I chose Vista over XP.   I think I even beat Chief in migrating from XP to Vista for when I have to work with Windows.

Online blue911

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #278: October 22, 2009, 05:48:48 PM »
The problem with Vista was it didn't work with your peripherals.If 7 has the same problem, then it's a piece of crap.  

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #279: October 22, 2009, 06:13:48 PM »
Now I never said I recommended Vista for business use, and I still wouldn't simply because 7 is the right choice for businesses finally migrating away from XP (a move that is by now LONG overdue).  Vista's good qualities simply didn't translate for the average over-the-hill-hardware change-o-phobic business environment.  With a few more years of hardware churn and performance increases in 7 itself, most anything still reasonably in use can now handle the upgrade just fine.  I've got 7 RC running on an old Dell SX280 (P4, 1GB RAM) at work and while it may not always be "faster" than XP in terms of sheer speed, it's definitely more responsive, especially when multitasking.

I'm not sure how Vista's IPv6 implementation has anything to do with home users though.  It isn't used unless something you are connecting to is using IPv6, otherwise it falls back to v4 transparently.  I actually always just disabled v6 personally because I didn't expect it to ever be in widespread use before Vista got the heave-ho.

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I think I even beat Chief in migrating from XP to Vista for when I have to work with Windows.

Possibly.  I was more of a gamer then than I am now, so while I had Vista on my machine from RC onward, it was usually in a dual-boot with XP until early '08 or so when I had finally found solutions or workarounds for any remaining issues (some of which were admittedly very obscure and would not affect the vast majority of typical PC users).  I always thought Vista "felt" better than XP for General use, though.

The problem with your peripherals was they didn't work with Vista

Fixed.  Subtle, but fixed ;)  As I said before, blame the manufacturers of your peripherals.

That said, I've always advocated MS taking a more active role in providing generic/basic drivers via Windows Update, which they appear to be doing to a much greater extent with 7.

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If 7 has the same problem, then it's a piece of crap.

By that logic, If I weigh 800 lbs and can't fit through your front door, your house is a piece of crap.

7 and Vista drivers are one and the same, by and large, so since everyone has now had almost 3 years to get their crap together, most peripherals will work fine with 7.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #280: October 22, 2009, 06:31:29 PM »
... businesses finally migrating away from XP (a move that is by now LONG overdue). 
:lmao:

Our company just upgraded to XP, literally within the last month.  P4 + 512MB RAM isn't doing anything more.  It is better (faster, better multitasking) than 2000.  By the time Windows 9 comes out, they'll be ready to upgrade to Windows 7 :lol:

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #281: October 22, 2009, 06:35:20 PM »
:lmao:

Our company just upgraded to XP, literally within the last month.  P4 + 512MB RAM isn't doing anything more.  It is better (faster, better multitasking) than 2000.  By the time Windows 9 comes out, they'll be ready to upgrade to Windows 7 :lol:

98 SE 4 EVA 8)

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #282: October 22, 2009, 09:02:50 PM »
Steve Ballmer kicks ass. he was crapting all over apple/mac at every chance today. :lmao:

9 out of 10 in the usa still choose windows over mac.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #283: October 22, 2009, 09:06:05 PM »
I've never actually known anyone to be a Steve Ballmer fan.  He's got business savvy, but as a presenter / public speaker he is a buffoon.

If 1/10 sales are Mac, then Apple is very happy.  They are fine as a niche market, since they are obviously making money.  They just beat their earnings estimate the other day and their stock is at its highest level ever.  I've easily doubled my investment in Apple shares since I bought them when they were in the mid $90s.

MS needs Apple to force them to innovate and bring out better products.  And the reverse is also true.  Competition is good for all of us, Mac fans, Windows fans, and it's the best for folks like me, those of us who enjoy products from both companies.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #284: October 22, 2009, 09:10:35 PM »
"Developers"


"Going crazy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc&NR=1 (Embedding disabled, limit reached)

:lmao:

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #285: October 22, 2009, 09:47:47 PM »
MS needs Apple to force them to innovate and bring out better products.  And the reverse is also true.  Competition is good for all of us, Mac fans, Windows fans, and it's the best for folks like me, those of us who enjoy products from both companies.

This.

Also, Ballmer is hilarious.  How can you NOT be a fan?  Granted it's not exactly the "typical" definition of fan, but I'm a fan nonetheless :lol:

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #286: October 22, 2009, 09:51:08 PM »
This.

Also, Ballmer is hilarious.  How can you NOT be a fan?  Granted it's not exactly the "typical" definition of fan, but I'm a fan nonetheless :lol:
Oh yeah, he is funny as crap.  Have you ever seen "Pirates of Silicon Valley"?  His character is pretty funny in that movie too.

MS and Apple need each other, but I've become increasingly worried that Apple may be resting on their laurels.  They haven't introduced a new product that "blew me away" since the original iPhone keynote.

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #287: October 23, 2009, 09:31:26 AM »
I'm not sure how Vista's IPv6 implementation has anything to do with home users though.  It isn't used unless something you are connecting to is using IPv6, otherwise it falls back to v4 transparently.  I actually always just disabled v6 personally because I didn't expect it to ever be in widespread use before Vista got the heave-ho.

The perceptible problem for most users was that is that when IPv6 was enabled, Vista would invoke autotuning on all connections.  Only, autotuning didn't work, and ground many connections to a halt and timing out (my personal experience was about 1/3 of website were affected, those that were marginally complex - we never had any POP3 problems, but others reported that their POP3's were affected).   The fix was to either disable IPv6 entirely (the better fix), or disable the non-working autotuning, meaning you may as well disable IPv6 entirely and not bother with the latency checking for IPv6 before the fallback to IPv4.  This was a pain in both RC1 & RC2 as well, so just more of a disappointment  than a surprise in the final release.  After the first round of shipments, OEMs started shipping with IPv6 disabled and forcing the one-size-fits-all connections.  But, those who upgraded prior to SP1 were susceptible to a rude surprise.  SP1 provided a fix, but the fix was more that autotuning more didn't get in the way rather than worked.  Rather than preventing connections, it just didn't do anything, but at least you didn't have to disable it to get it not to do anything.

The autotuning in 7 has been fixed and works very well.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #288: October 23, 2009, 09:55:09 AM »
Yeah I remember the tweaks doing the rounds about disabling or otherwise fixing auto-tuning.  By chance I never really encountered the problem personally because I always disabled IPv6.  It interfered with LAN functionality in some of my older games.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #289: October 23, 2009, 11:52:59 AM »
How many times can I use one windows 7 product key?

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #290: October 23, 2009, 12:27:03 PM »
How many times can I use one windows 7 product key?

If it's a retail key, you can use it forever, but you may have to call MS reactivation line if you move it to a different machine or swap out motherboards.

As for the other possibly implied meaning of your question, I don't know.  Two or three times, maybe.  I wouldn't advise it.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #291: October 23, 2009, 12:28:37 PM »
I mean how many different computers can I put it on at one time? I know you have to activate it online so msoft knows what you are doing.

why wouldn't you advise it?

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #292: October 23, 2009, 12:38:12 PM »
Not to bash on Linux, but any laptop you can find from today onward will come with Windows 7, which is great, and using Linux won't save you any money anyway if you're only planning to use free/OS apps, so why re-invent the wheel?

If you just want to try Linux, go for it, but the economic angle doesn't make sense to me given your stated intentions.

PC laptops are far cheaper than Macbooks, and come with accident protection plans, something that is a dealbreaker for me. So PC Laptop dual boot with Linux is cheaper than a Macbook. Linux hardware support is getting really good.

Chief, JMad is talking a Linux only or Lindoze machine, so there is a big savings.

also, I don't think my internet (Cricket Mobile Broadband) works with Linux either

I just picked up Virgin Mobile 3G because the coverage area for Cricket is so poor. Last I looked their mobile broadband was in Baltimore but not DC (guess that changed).

Virgin Mobile is not unlimited, so Cricket really wins there, but for what I need it to do (email and ssh), Virgin Mobile is great. $150 for the card, can top up for $10 or $20, and no contract. No idea about Linux support for Virgin (Wild West style last time I checked), but I usually run a virtual machine on top of Windows anyway.

No way am I signing a $1000+ contract with a traditional carrier.

JMad how much did your adapter cost.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #293: October 23, 2009, 12:43:00 PM »
Chief, JMad is talking a Linux only or Lindoze machine, so there is a big savings.

I think you must've misread somewhere, or I missed something, because nobody mentioned Macbooks.  JMad was asking about Linux on a PC notebook, which doesn't save you any money because they all come with Windows anyway and you're unlikely to find a "bare" notebook or one with Linux pre-installed that's going to save you more than a token amount of money.  And since he already mentioned using free/open-source apps (those exist on Windows too ya know) he isn't going to save money there either.

Like I said, if he's curious about Linux, I'd say go for it, but don't do it thinking it's going to magically save you a bunch of money somehow.  In fact, one of my biggest knocks on Linux as a desktop OS is that there's no compelling reason to switch to it - almost every great 'nix app has been ported to Windows and works great.  There are also several great free Windows apps that are Windows-only (which of course can mostly be used in 'nix via WINE).

Honestly JMad if you really want to save money, the used route is best.  Notebook hardware really hasn't changed all that much in the last couple of years and you can score some great notebooks for fantastic prices this way.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #294: October 23, 2009, 12:52:40 PM »
I think you must've misread somewhere, because nobody mentioned Macbooks.  JMad was asking about Linux on a PC notebook, which doesn't save you any money because they all come with Windows anyway and you're unlikely to find a "bare" notebook or one with Linux pre-installed that's worth a darn and going to save you more than a token amount of money.  And since He already mentioned using free/open-source apps (those exist on Windows too ya know) he isn't going to save money there either.

Like I said, if he's curious about Linux, I'd say go for it, but don't do it thinking it's going to magically save you a bunch of money somehow.  In fact, one of my biggest knocks on Linux as a desktop OS is that there's no compelling reason to use it - almost every great 'nix app has been ported to Windows and works great.  There are also several great free Windows apps that are Windows-only (which of course can mostly be used in 'nix via WINE).

I was expanding on his theme: My response to Jmad was one line. Thought Nathan or someone mentioned Macs, but whatever.

Let me know when you can run graphical apps on a remote server in windows without remote desktop bullcrap. Until then, Linux and Mac are quite necessary. The LaTeX implementation for Windows just plain sucks. CDParanoia is Linux only and legally needs to stay that way. For those that don't know, CDParanoia does it's damnedest to extract audio from CD's that are pretty heavily scratched. It's salvaged so many CD's for me. Three reasons off the top of my head. Four: creating and compiling C code. Why the hell would you do that in Windows?

But I run Windows, and lots of open source software on it. Some of my applications are BETTER implemented in Windows. I'm working on an upgrade to 7 right now -  but the damn open-source GParted is taking a year to move enough free space to my Windows partition to install it because windows magically ate several GB of free space as is its wont.


Anyone upgrade from Vista to 7?  How long did it take? Might hold off since this repartition is taking forever and my other laptop doesn't have enough juice to websurf, play music, and work at the same time.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #295: October 23, 2009, 12:59:56 PM »
Let me know when you can run graphical apps on a remote server in windows without remote desktop bullcrap. Until then, Linux and Mac are quite necessary. The LaTeX implementation for Windows just plain sucks.

Because I'm sure JMad will be doing that :rofl:

Hell even *I* don't do that, and I'm a pretty big nerd.  I think it's safe to say that MOST people don't do that.  That said, I'd be willing to bet you there's way to do it, if I cared to.  It may not be "native" but many of the best things in Windows aren't.  Who cares?

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CDParanoia is Linux only and legally needs to stay that way. For those that don't know, CDParanoia does it's darnedest to extract audio from CD's that are pretty heavily scratched. It's salvaged so many CD's for me.

You're starting to sound like SF - if you haven't heard of it, it must not exist.  Trust me there are plenty of great apps for recovering damaged discs in Windows.

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Three reasons off the top of my head. Four: creating and compiling C code. Why the hell would you do that in Windows?

Oh right, I forgot you can't compile code in Windows :roll:

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But I run Windows, and lots of open source software on it. Some of my applications are BETTER implemented in Windows. I'm working on an upgrade to 7 right now -  but the darn open-source GParted is taking a year to move enough free space to my Windows partition to install it because windows magically ate several GB of free space as is its wont.

GParted is nice as long as you aren't using it to move NTFS partitions.  Trust me, you're better off using paid and dedicated Windows software for that.  Though I will say I've never had any reliability problems doing so with GParted, it's just slower than molasses.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #296: October 23, 2009, 01:09:23 PM »
Not gonna quote your post because it takes too long :lol:

Linux proficiency is a marketable job skill. Especially if you set up a small network at home, say, and learn how to manage it. But for what JMad wants, I see no need for it. Never suggested he had to have it.

CDParanoia is the BEST program for recovering damaged disks. They in commercial copy protection schemes, from what I understand, and then give the scheme to the developers so those disks can be ripped. I just want to put my CD collection into iTunes.

You can compile code in Windows, but it sure is nice when the compiler is built into the shell.

I have Partition Magic, but it's an old version that's not Windows compatible. Rather than buy something new, I've just switched to GParted. I'm pretty pissed it's taking like 5 hours to resize and move a 40GB ext3 partition, though.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #297: October 23, 2009, 01:20:06 PM »
Not gonna quote your post because it takes too long :lol:

Truth.  Quote-fu is tedious, but I'm a bit OCD about it :shock: :lol:

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Linux proficiency is a marketable job skill. Especially if you set up a small network at home, say, and learn how to manage it. But for what JMad wants, I see no need for it. Never suggested he had to have it.

I never said it wasn't.  Why do you think I screw around with it (and I do, plenty)?  We're in agreement on everything you said here.  That said, Mac and Windows proficieny are marketable job skills too, networked or not.  If you work in IT you're expected to know everything whether you do or not :? (@ management-types)

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CDParanoia is the BEST program for recovering damaged disks.

This is a subjective statement unless you can prove otherwise.  Anecdotes don't count.  And I'm not doubting that it's an awesome program (never personally used it) but I know there are plenty of apps that do that kind of thing for Windows, both free and paid.  I'm always skeptical of any claims of anything being "the BEST" at anything.  Different strokes, I suppose.

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You can compile code in Windows, but it sure is nice when the compiler is built into the shell.

Naturally, but the DoJ might have something to say about that.  There are a LOT of things that I'd like to see built-into Windows that'll never happen for the same reason.  Not to mention the same people that claim Linux has this-or-that built-in (not meaning you, just people in general) would be the first ones to scream "BLOAT!" if MS DID have XYZ features built-in.

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I have Partition Magic, but it's an old version that's not Windows compatible. Rather than buy something new, I've just switched to GParted. I'm pretty annoyed it's taking like 5 hours to resize and move a 40GB ext3 partition, though.

Oh man that takes me back.  It's a shame they got bought out by Symantec :(

Offline The Chief

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #298: October 23, 2009, 01:31:42 PM »
And @ no one in particular - I forgot how much ass IE6 sucks.

(I'm reminded of this by the fact that the floating DC logo in the banner is encased in a big blue square because IE6 doesn't support alpha transparency in PNG files :roll: )

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hardware/OS Geek Thread
« Reply #299: October 23, 2009, 01:55:52 PM »
I mean how many different computers can I put it on at one time? I know you have to activate it online so msoft knows what you are doing.

why wouldn't you advise it?
Well, it's illegal for one reason.  A retail license is usually for one computer only.  Your MSDN version might be different though, you may be able to generate a few keys.  In a TechNet subscription you can get multiple keys (10) for each version.