Zmnn to get TJ surgery

[DPMOmaha]

Hey man, the Nats have just won 8 games in a row and counting.  Nothing's impossible.  They need to give it a Texiera like attempt though (not necessarilly those same type of figures, but to show we're serious about getting in the game).

[UMDNats]

Which is why ERA is a stupid way to judge pitchers overall. Any stats person should rip this guy to shreds. It's been demonstrated from year to year that ERAs fluctuate, even for the best pitchers, while the raw stats remain consistent. And BABIP is a stat for comparing a pitcher from year to year that specifically indicates the impact of luck and defense.

The stats that a pitcher can actually control are HRs, BBs, and Ks.

So lets look at those:

HR/9
2008 - 1.1
2009 - 0.9
Career - 1.1

K/9
2008 - 5.1
2009 - 5.2
Career - 5.3

BB/9
2008 - 2.9
2009 - 2.2
Career - 2.7

So for the things that Washburn can control he is actually better in 2009 than 2008. And overall, he has been pretty consistent with the career numbers. The fact is that pitchers are dependent on the defense behind him. This is kind of laughable. The Mariners made a concerted effort of going after better defensive players to improve their UZR at every position. If anything this should show that Washburn is a consistently good pitcher that will be much more effective with a good defense rather than the idea that he is "nothing" without a great defense.

The conclusion should be simple. You don't reject guys like Wolf and Washburn. Instead, you embrace them and simply concentrate on spending the money necessary to ensure you have a quality defense. Pitching and defense. What a concept.

Interesting points, SSB. Thanks for the lesson. I thought the guy had a point about defense and I'm not advocating rejecting a guy like Washburn, just repeating what I read because I thought the guy made a good argument.

If we were to sign a guy like Washburn I would not be upset.

[Nathan]

Didn't I read that the Nationals franchise made $45 million in profit this year so far?  Our team salary was $62 million this year.  So they should be able to spend $107 million on salaries for next year and still break even, and probably actually make money because a larger payroll should equal better players should equal better attendance.

Now why can't they afford to bring in some quality FA's again?

[tomterp]

Good luck with your surgery, Jordan.  We'll keep the light on for you.     

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

He's 23, so maybe 3-4 years younger than most, but really, the human arm simply was not meant to throw relatively light objects that hard 100+ times a go.   

How does a pitcher that young require TJ surgery?  I've never read his mechanics were awful. This comes as a total shock even though something was obviously wrong lately. 

[sportsfan882]

He's 23, so maybe 3-4 years younger than most, but really, the human arm simply was not meant to throw relatively light objects that hard 100+ times a go.   

especially overhand

[hammondsnats]

freak this crap about "overpriced."  Baseball salaries are basically in a vacuum.  THERE IS NO SALARY CAP.

There's no reason, if Cliff Lee were to be a failed signing, that the Nats couldn't turn around and sign Jake Peavy next year if he were to hit the market.  Who gives a crap if it's a "waste of money"?  You're "wasting" the money of rich guys in suits who are rolling in dough right now.

thank u

lerner is top 150th richest man in america and hasn't spent much sine owning the team ... he can spend as much as possible ... the days of "we're rebuilding and we're gonna save our resources til the right time" should be over soon.

[The Chief]

blah nevermind

[hammondsnats]

blah nevermind

damn batman

we're not trolls, just an opinion and when something like this arises it's just some of us venting we hope we can improve our roster when we lose someone like zimmermann for an extended period of time.  i don't have much faith, but hopefully they prove me wrong.

[The Chief]

Your opinion and that of your compatriots is and long has been duly noted.  Unless it changes, I see no need to bukkake every thread with it.

[shoeshineboy]

Interesting points, SSB. Thanks for the lesson. I thought the guy had a point about defense and I'm not advocating rejecting a guy like Washburn, just repeating what I read because I thought the guy made a good argument.

If we were to sign a guy like Washburn I would not be upset.

There's certainly no doubt that the defense makes a difference. This was by design. The Mariners went straight down the sabermetric path to incrementally cover for the weaknesses they had in UZR - following the success of the Rays - in an effort to improve their standing. Nyger Morgan is a great example of how a tried and true old-school belief in building defense up the middle meshes with the bobjective stats guys' method of incrementally achieving an overall improvement in run differential by plugging holes on defense. Chances are, guys like Morgan and Zimmerman are going to prevent as many or more runs than they produce. Washburn is no Santana, but his base performance is good enough that having the right defense behind him can make him very effective. I think the point is well taken, but the conclusion misses the point. The guy should have seen the value in Washburn with good defense not how bad he is without it. (and he is certainly not as bad as bad defense has made our pitching look.)

We have guys like Lannan who pitch to contact and are brilliant as long as they have good defense and use it effectively. This is why the Rizzo philosophy of going after sturdy ground ball pitchers and solid, consistent defenders makes sense from both an old-school gut sense as well as a modern, objective statistical sense.

[shoeshineboy]

Where has this team shown you that they are going to do the things that you listed? Annual $100 Million dollar payroll?

They haven't. That's my problem with them. They could easily spend 100M a year on payroll. There are 12 teams that have payrolls over 95M this season. There is no reason that the Nats should be in at least the top ten in payroll.

[PatsNats28]

I'd love to get Lackey, even if we overpaid. I think he'd take 4 years, 65 million. Not sure if we'd do that though.

And for a guy like Washburn, I'd be willing to offer 2 years, 12 mil. Not much more.

[DPMOmaha]

It's the Tex/Dunn scenario for pitchers...

[Lintyfresh85]

Sucks.

I'd love to see what this team could do with just a 75-80 million payroll.

[cmdterps44]

Okay so, the Lerners get something like 3.4 billion dollars, thats their net worth.

Spending 80M total over a year seems to me like a 80 dollars well spent in one night out of 3,400$...

I'm trying to make a comparison that, 3.4 billion is way more than enough. If I were them I would spend it wisely on making this team better.


Anyway, my point is, they shouldn't be to worried about wasting money. If they get good products couldn't they profit more off it?

[ColtonWillems]

That
Is
freaking
Terrible
Luck

This is going to be a huge hit to Zimmermann's development if god-willing he can even come back from this surgery.

He misses more than an entire year of where he can be gaining experience in the majors.

Strasburg better be signed now.

[amanuel]

I refuse to believe this, ill wake up in two years and see if it was all just a horrible dream...............

[wisefan11]

Seriously, one of the only reasons I was still watching...

[mitlen]

This is a helluva way to start my day ... yuck.

[NJ Ave]

I guess we can be thankful it wasn't a shoulder problem like a torn labrum - at least we can look forward to him coming back at full strength (most likely). I'd feel a lot worse if his career was over before it started, rather than just postponed.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Depressing news to wake up to.

[blue911]

And the gulf between Strasburg and the Nationals just got wider. Good Luck to Jordan, let's hope it works out better than the hatchet jobs done to Patterson & Hill.

[shoeshineboy]

And the gulf between Strasburg and the Nationals just got wider. Good Luck to Jordan, let's hope it works out better than the hatchet jobs done to Patterson & Hill.

Yeah, that will be another battle of perspectives:
Boras: Well, Mike, looks like you really need my boy even more now. The price just went to $55M.
Rizzo: No, Scott. JZ just proves that these young hard throwers are practically destined for the knife before their career really goes anywhere. We're dropping our bonus offer another 5 mil.

[blue911]

Yeah, that will be another battle of perspectives:
Boras: Well, Mike, looks like you really need my boy even more now. The price just went to $55M.
Rizzo: No, Scott. JZ just proves that these young hard throwers are practically destined for the knife before their career really goes anywhere. We're dropping our bonus offer another 5 mil.

The risk of pitchers. The Lerner's aren't the first novice owners that don't understand the value of veteran pitchers. And the old axiom about never having enough starting pitching is so true.