Author Topic: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3  (Read 4223 times)

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Offline DCFan

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #275: July 23, 2009, 08:50:53 AM »
'METS DROP SERIES TO BASEBALL'S WORST' - http://www.nypost.com/seven/07232009/sports/mets/mets_drop_series_to_baseballs_worst_180811.htm

'AMID TONY BERNAZARD TURMOIL, METS' BATS SILENT AGAIN IN 3-1 LOSS TO NATIONALS' - http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/07/22/2009-07-22_mets_bats_silent_again.html. Daily News sports main page also has several other pieces on the Bernazard mess (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/index.html).


Yep, I got a couple of them posted here;

http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,12818.0.html

Offline tomterp

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #276: July 23, 2009, 08:51:37 AM »
I hope so but I don't think we will get much so Rizzo will likely hold on to him. No one wanted Dunn in the offseason except for the Nats so I don't expect that they will be willing to give up much for him now.

He's demonstrated that his numbers weren't inflated due to Great American Ballpark, by putting up equal or even better numbers here.  So I'd say that his marketability might be modestly enhanced.

Online spidernat

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #277: July 23, 2009, 09:29:38 AM »
why would we get a package like that? Look what the Reds got for Dunn last season. Micah Owings (5.33 ERA) and junk (Dallas Buck and Wilkin Castillo).



Yet you want to trade him.  :?  If he isn't going to bring anything back why do you want to get rid of him aside from your hatred for him?

Offline Galah

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #278: July 23, 2009, 09:43:00 AM »
Yet you want to trade him.  :?  If he isn't going to bring anything back why do you want to get rid of him aside from your hatred for him?

...glad to see I'm not the only one confused....
Well, maybe I am, but....where am I???

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #279: July 23, 2009, 10:42:31 AM »
I'm not arguing that Dunn isn't a great value for us. That's the point. I love Dunn. But the FO has declared that they believe he is a DH, so he is not a long-term play. He's a great value for us now, but that is what makes him a great value for others. With Willingham able to play LF, dealing Dunn to a contender (and eating his salary) should be bring back some choice cuts in return. The guy is having a great year.

I was mostly just messing with SF.  He used to be all about RISP stats, but he's been oddly silent in that regard since Zimmerman's everything w/ RISP went into the crapter.

Both are fat for the fire. The right deal comes along, I'd have no problem parting ways with them.

Exactly this.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #280: July 23, 2009, 10:43:43 AM »
Career #'s in these situations (using only this year represents such a small sample size):

RISP:

Dunn - .229/.420/.482
Willingham - .263/.386/.452

Men on:

Dunn - .246/.409/.510
Willingham - .265/.369/.465

First, I was just taking a dig at sportsfan (as per my previous post).  Secondly, I don't care what these guys did with anyone else, I care what they do with us, so from a strictly "who is better offensively" standpoint I'd pick Dunn right now and I'm sticking with that until Willingham gives me a reason to think otherwise.  I know what the career numbers say and I'm not a fool - I realize it's more likely they'll go back to those numbers - but for now, I guess I don't really see it as mattering since I'm not expecting Dunn to be with the team past next year no matter what happens.  Willingham is the obvious keeper unless we trade him.

Quote
Dunn gets on base more and smashes the ball harder, but neither should be considered a slouch.  Both guys' lines in both situations are fairly similar to their overall career lines.

This being the case, I think it makes it clear that we should keep Willingham.  He's the better overall player.  He's definitely more athletic in the field.

I know there are a few people here who chided his defense and actually find him to be worse than Dunn, but I wholeheartedly disagree with that.  I think his range is far better, and he can play both corners in a pinch.  Dunn is one of the most sluggish OF'ers in all of baseball.

Add to it that Willingham still has two years under team control and you're looking at much more value there.

I agree with most of this.  When Willingham wasn't getting regular starts, he definitely looked worse in the OF than Dunn, but he has adapted quite nicely and seems to be doing just fine now.  In spite of whatever others thing, I think Dunn would be quite serviceable at 1B.  So much so that I'd much rather see him there than in the OF.  I disagree that he is "sluggish" as he seems perfectly capable of getting up a head of steam and getting to balls.  Someone here or on the broadcast team said once that he isn't un-athletic, and I agree.  All of that having been said, he's def not someone you want in the OF if you can help it.

I guess I just don't see the point of your post.  Dunn's trade value isn't enough to move him, and Willingham is too old to be worth keeping at the rate this team is going.

EDIT - I should clarify what I meant about Dunn's trade value.  It's not enough to move him for what Rizzo is apparently asking.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #281: July 23, 2009, 11:07:07 AM »
Chief with the Trollcats avatar :clap:

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #282: July 23, 2009, 11:19:52 AM »
I guess I just don't see the point of your post.  Dunn's trade value isn't enough to move him, and Willingham is too old to be worth keeping at the rate this team is going.

EDIT - I should clarify what I meant about Dunn's trade value.  It's not enough to move him for what Rizzo is apparently asking.
My point is that Dunn should be traded before Willingham.  We don't really know what Rizzo's asking price is.  It's impossible to say whether he should or shouldn't pull the trigger in a vacuum, but I'll say this: If you were to put me in the G.M. chair, I'd probably go with a Dunn trade right now, even if the return seems low.  The reason being that Dunn is probably at peak value right now. 

Next year, he won't fetch as much in a trade because the Nationals will be pressed to deal him given that he'll be in a contract year.  Any possible added value to Dunn will be offset by the fact that he'll be in a contract year; thus, I think Dunn is at peak value right now.  Given that, and given the fact that I think you would want to keep Willingham, I think trading Dunn is something that needs to be done, not necessarily for the sake of being done, but for the sake of getting more value than you will in the alternative situations.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals vs Mets, Game 3
« Reply #283: July 23, 2009, 11:28:36 AM »
I don't disagree with you on those points, but it boils down to whether you trust Rizzo knows what he is doing or not.