NFL thread (2011-12)

[BerkeleyNat]

Party!

 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Tom Brady was drafted by the Expos in 1995. 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120203&content_id=26561328&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

...did not know that.

Omar Minaya would have traded him for a half-season of Jose Contreras or something.

[HalfSmokes]

Ummm ... How come on the 12 men on the.field penalty, the clock wasnt reset?

If there is no reset, I'm surprised teams don't send out 20 defenders for hail marries- worst case is a 5 yard penalty? This probably gets changed in the off season

[Lintyfresh85]

If there is no reset, I'm surprised teams don't send out 20 defenders for hail marries- worst case is a 5 yard penalty? This probably gets changed in the off season

Agreed.

I think eight seconds ran off on that play?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Eh.

For all the Brady love out there, he made 2 bone headed plays in the past two games when he went deep late to go for the jugular when what he needed to do was keep possession.  Granted, against the Ravens, it was a called play, while the deep pick by the linebacker covering I think Gronk was a busted play / improvisation after being flushed from the pocket.

I said it two weeks ago and I'll say it again - the deep pass has not been a weapon all year.  Two underthrows.  I forget the down and distance when he went deep in the Super Bowl.  I thought it was 3d and long, so I can be a bit understanding, but if it was anything other than that, it was an overconfident toss when he could have pulled down the ball, scrambled for a few yards, slid, and kept the clock moving.

[HalfSmokes]

I said it two weeks ago and I'll say it again - the deep pass has not been a weapon all year.  Two underthrows.  I forget the down and distance when he went deep in the Super Bowl.  I thought it was 3d and long, so I can be a bit understanding, but if it was anything other than that, it was an overconfident toss when he could have pulled down the ball, scrambled for a few yards, slid, and kept the clock moving.

I blame roster construction for that- they had no wideouts to be deep threats and as great as their tight ends are, they aren't really the same as a wide receiver running a deep out

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Was a mistake to not bring back Moss and to go with 85.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Still, it amazes me when a team goes away from what brought them success at the end of the biggest game of their season.  It strikes me as Bledsoe-esque.  The SI piece on Kraft this week talked about how Belichick got turned off on Bledsoe because  he improvised too much.  Well, what was this?

[The Chief]

JCA are all Pats fans this "we beat ourselves" delusional?

I kid of course

[BerkeleyNat]

I blame roster construction for that- they had no wideouts to be deep threats and as great as their tight ends are, they aren't really the same as a wide receiver running a deep out

Yes, and as great as Gronk has been...he put up Madden like numbers against some bad teams. Patriots are built to win, but not so much to win it all. I'm amazed that they made it to the Superbowl. You really can't blame Brady because they haven't really surrounded him with a lot of offensive weapons. A lot of folks might disagree, but I really believe they were the least talented team left during the AFC/NFC Championship weekend. I don't like Bill Belichick, but maybe the guy is a genius. He took that team to the Superbowl and probably wins it if Brady hits Welker on that pass in the 4th.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

JCA are all Pats fans this "we beat ourselves" delusional?

I kid of course

Nah.  The team that wins on the field deserves to win.  You make plays, you win.  It's just Brady gets treated like His Nephew, so when he makes the same mistake twice it ought to be pointed out.   It's "delusional" to think he walks on water 100% of the time. 

The LB made a great play to pick the ball off just by being in position for the underthrow, but he was beat deep on a good throw and can't catch an overthow.  Whatever happened to the old, if you are going to miss on a throw, miss where it can't be picked off? 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

By the way, if you go back a couple of weeks, during the Giants - SF game, I said the Giants should be a 5 point favorite on the Pats if the won the NFC, and SF should be a 2 point favorite if they won the NFC. 

I forgot about the possibility of an unsuccessful 2 point conversion try.

[The Chief]

I'm not all that knowledgeable about football but it didn't really feel like either offense "deserved" to win.  Maybe the Pats D was just that good in the first half but it seemed inexcusable to me that the Giants went into halftime with only 9 points after dominating time of possession the whole first half.  I was just glad that the Pats didn't win it on a last-minute crapshoot, that would have been a really terrible ending, IMO.

[spidernat]

They tend to work around big college games, like PSU's run to the bottom of the big ten

PSU, bottom and big ten! 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I'm not all that knowledgeable about football but it didn't really feel like either offense "deserved" to win.  Maybe the Pats D was just that good in the first half but it seemed inexcusable to me that the Giants went into halftime with only 9 points after dominating time of possession the whole first half.  I was just glad that the Pats didn't win it on a last-minute crapshoot, that would have been a really terrible ending, IMO.

The Giants really got boned on that phantom holding penalty towards the end of the first half.

[spidernat]

If there is no reset, I'm surprised teams don't send out 20 defenders for hail marries- worst case is a 5 yard penalty? This probably gets changed in the off season

They said that Buddy Ryan used to run extra players in situations like this and they actually practiced those situations because they could run out clock with very little drawback.

Maybe the Pats D was just that good in the first half but it seemed inexcusable to me that the Giants went into halftime with only 9 points after dominating time of possession the whole first half.

The patriots defense played well enough to win but they also shot themselves in the foot repeatedly. They had 12 men on the field on a play in which they forced a fumble AND recovered it. They had and offside penalty on a third down so they were getting off the field after a 3 and out at a time when they seemed to be getting full control of the game. Plus that changed field position. In the first half they repeatedly failed to identify who was releasing to the flat and it led to a coupe of first downs. And there were plays in which a CB might as well not even been on the field because of the cushion or in that 38 yard pass because the CB failed to check Manningham at the line of scrimmage to help out his safety help.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Yes, and as great as Gronk has been...he put up Madden like numbers against some bad teams. Patriots are built to win, but not so much to win it all. I'm amazed that they made it to the Superbowl.

All they played were bad to middling teams, except one game v. Pittsburgh and one v. NYG in the regular season.  I never thought much of this squad in terms of skills and pedigree.  I grew to like the O-line a lot, and thought the D-line became reliable once they settled on Love and Deaderick as the primary non-Wilforks.   The other thing about their D was you saw an awful lot of Chung making plays in the playoffs. His presence is huge for them.   

But seriously, how many mediocre talents can BB coach up?  Rob Ninkovich, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, the aforementioned Love and Deaderick, James Ihedigbo, Julian Edelman?  Truth be told, I still can't tell you the name of #58 (nor could a few other regular pats fans I watch with), and he was on the field a lot.

The two weaknesses on offense were the lack of a breakaway threat back to complement BJGE and the lack of an outside deep threat.  That's still a good offense.  No shame in the Giants giving them fits.   They do that to a lot of teams.

[Lintyfresh85]

All they played were bad to middling teams, except one game v. Pittsburgh and one v. NYG in the regular season.  I never thought much of this squad in terms of skills and pedigree.  I grew to like the O-line a lot, and thought the D-line became reliable once they settled on Love and Deaderick as the primary non-Wilforks.   The other thing about their D was you saw an awful lot of Chung making plays in the playoffs. His presence is huge for them.   

But seriously, how many mediocre talents can BB coach up?  Rob Ninkovich, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, the aforementioned Love and Deaderick, James Ihedigbo, Julian Edelman?  Truth be told, I still can't tell you the name of #58 (nor could a few other regular pats fans I watch with), and he was on the field a lot.

The two weaknesses on offense were the lack of a breakaway threat back to complement BJGE and the lack of an outside deep threat.  That's still a good offense.  No shame in the Giants giving them fits.   They do that to a lot of teams.

Then the onus would be on BB the talent evaluator for failing to pick up players through the draft that have talent, right?

[imref]

They said that Buddy Ryan used to run extra players in situations like this and they actually practiced those situations because they could run out clock with very little drawback.

i don't believe the game can end in a defensive penalty, so all that would do is move the Pats 5 yards closer and let them try again.

[Lintyfresh85]

i don't believe the game can end in a defensive penalty, so all that would do is move the Pats 5 yards closer and let them try again.

Which is all well and good, but if you do it with 17 seconds left, and eight seconds run off the clock, it's a very smart move to trade five yards for eight seconds.

[imref]

Which is all well and good, but if you do it with 17 seconds left, and eight seconds run off the clock, it's a very smart move to trade five yards for eight seconds.

yeah, but you aren't going to run a hail mary with 17 seconds left.  But agree, a too many men should be a dead-ball foul, five yards from the spot and no clock advancement.

[spidernat]

You don't do it on the last play. The point is that if you do it enough times and (as the eagles did during Ryan's tenure) you use 13 men to stop the offense you can run even more time off the clock and reduce the opposing team to having nothing but one final hail mary.

[Terpfan76]

I'm going to start and end ever thing I say with As-Salaam-Alaikum my brother.

You do that and I'll have a hit put out on you... You have no idea how often I hear that!

[imref]

FYI - Buddy Ryan had a play to use more than 11 men to run down the clock.

http://smartfootball.com/defense/buddy-ryans-polish-goalline-tactic

[KnorrForYourMoney]

FYI - Buddy Ryan had a play to use more than 11 men to run down the clock.

http://smartfootball.com/defense/buddy-ryans-polish-goalline-tactic

That's what spider just said...twice.