Author Topic: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?  (Read 1599 times)

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Offline soxfan59

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No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Topic Start: December 09, 2008, 01:50:05 AM »
Hmmm.  I've been waiting for you guys all day. 

There is no discussion of the huge injustice meted out today by the Veteran's Committee? 

Here in the Chicago media, you would think it was the only sports news today.  It led every radio and TV station's sports segment. 

What story you say?

Ron Santo once again denied his rightful place in the hall of fame. 

Ron Santo weeping openly over this injustice. 

Ron Santo is, you know, the greatest third baseman ever to play the game.  Just ask him. 

And how his team leadership paid off.  Those juggernaut Cubs teams of the late 60s and early 70s.  All the pennants and World Series titles he brought to Chicago as the Captain of those teams. 

And they can't vote him into the hall of fame.

How many times has it been?  six?  fourteen?  thirty seven failed HOF elections? 

How does the east coast view this phenomenon? 

Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #1: December 09, 2008, 03:20:19 AM »


I like turtles.

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #2: December 09, 2008, 04:12:30 AM »
Mickey Vernon wasn't elected in either

or

Gil Hodges

Offline soxfan59

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #3: December 09, 2008, 08:44:33 AM »
Mickey Vernon wasn't elected in either

or

Gil Hodges

Was there any kind of outcry over them? 

Santo managed only 4% of the vote of the writers who actually saw him play. 

I didn't think anybody on the either of the Vets Committee ballot really deserved enshrinement.  All of them are borderline cases.  I certainly can't see Joe Gordon going in, and not Hodges, or even Dick Allen or Jim Kaat (the White Sox elements on the ballot). 

But it is the Cubs organization whining about, and local Chicago media, and Ron Santo himself, unashamedly self promotional in his efforts to be elected.  Supposedly, Santos teammates who are in the hall personally called Vets Committee voters to ask them to vote for him.  If Ron Santo wasn't a celebrity because he is the Cubs radio color man (and a bad one at that), nobody would even notice him. 

Offline tomterp

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #4: December 09, 2008, 08:45:06 AM »
Hmmm.  I've been waiting for you guys all day. 

There is no discussion of the huge injustice meted out today by the Veteran's Committee? 

Here in the Chicago media, you would think it was the only sports news today.  It led every radio and TV station's sports segment. 

What story you say?

Ron Santo once again denied his rightful place in the hall of fame. 

Ron Santo weeping openly over this injustice. 

Ron Santo is, you know, the greatest third baseman ever to play the game.  Just ask him. 

And how his team leadership paid off.  Those juggernaut Cubs teams of the late 60s and early 70s.  All the pennants and World Series titles he brought to Chicago as the Captain of those teams. 

And they can't vote him into the hall of fame.

How many times has it been?  six?  fourteen?  thirty seven failed HOF elections? 

How does the east coast view this phenomenon? 

I'm shocked, just shocked, that the voters refuse to see the greatness in Santo.   :shock:  Plus, he's a really nice guy, and doesn't that count for anything?    :roll:

Really, the whole lobbying effort is pretty ridiculous.  And don't forget Jim Rice, who's numbers were comparable to Frank Howard's, and yet he played in a bandbox while Frank played in cavernous Dodger Stadium and RFK and in the pitchers' era of the 60's before mounds were lowered.  But, Rice the the most "feared" hitter of his era, whatever the hell that means.   :?

Offline spidernat

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #5: December 09, 2008, 09:00:07 AM »

Really, the whole lobbying effort is pretty ridiculous. 


:clap:



Ron Santo weeping openly over this injustice. 


That's pathetic. But as far as I can determine, it hasn't even been talked about here on the east coast.  :rofl:

Offline tomterp

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #6: December 09, 2008, 09:06:21 AM »
That's pathetic. But as far as I can determine, it hasn't even been talked about here on the east coast.  :rofl:

It was quite the subject yesterday on XM 175.  The thing is, you get a player or retired player on record, they are all going to say player X, Y or Z were great players, and deserve to be in the HOF.  Nobody is going to bad-mouth Santo on air, there's a culture that prevents honest assessment of each others' faults and deficiencies.  Circle the wagons, everybody's great, everybody's a star, "they" don't know how hard it is to play the game, blah blah blah.

So yesterday was a parade of former players all talking about how great Santo is and what an injustice it is to keep him out, ad nauseum.   However, obviously enough writers are skeptical of his qualifications that his vote tally even went down this year.

And so far the veterans committe hasn't elected anyone for four straight years, so they have been affirming the baseball writers' judgement.


MrMadison

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #7: December 09, 2008, 09:07:56 AM »
I don't give a crap about Ron Santos.

this thread is now about cheesecake.



best cheesecake on the planet, imo.



Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #8: December 09, 2008, 09:10:27 AM »
I don't give a crap about Ron Santos.

this thread is now about cheesecake.

(Image removed from quote.)


I'd like to nominate this subject for every derailed thread on WNFF.  Make it happen JMad....make it happen. 






Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #9: December 09, 2008, 09:13:26 AM »
It was quite the subject yesterday on XM 175.  The thing is, you get a player or retired player on record, they are all going to say player X, Y or Z were great players, and deserve to be in the HOF.  Nobody is going to bad-mouth Santo on air, there's a culture that prevents honest assessment of each others' faults and deficiencies.  Circle the wagons, everybody's great, everybody's a star, "they" don't know how hard it is to play the game, blah blah blah.

So yesterday was a parade of former players all talking about how great Santo is and what an injustice it is to keep him out, ad nauseum.   However, obviously enough writers are skeptical of his qualifications that his vote tally even went down this year.

And so far the veterans committe hasn't elected anyone for four straight years, so they have been affirming the baseball writers' judgement.


The person who really pissed me off was Rob Dibble.  In fact, I don't even know why I listened to his show, I can't stomach the guy.  According to him - EVERYONE should be in the HoF.  Might as well turn it into "The Professional Baseball Museum Which Notes Everyone Who Ever Played The Game On Any Level Anywhere In The World."

Offline soxfan59

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #10: December 09, 2008, 03:25:09 PM »
From ESPN News:

LAS VEGAS -- Ron Santo, who fell nine votes short of election by the Veterans Committee to the Baseball Hall of Fame, said the process needs to change after the committee failed to elect a new member for the fourth straight time.

The Veterans Committee, a 64-member panel made up exclusively of all living Hall of Fame players, votes every other year on players from 1943 and after. Santo, who spent 14 of his 15 seasons with the Chicago Cubs and is a longtime broadcaster for the team, led the voting with 39 votes, or 61 percent, but needed to be on 75 percent of the ballots to be voted into the hall.

''It's a travesty,'' Santo said, according to the Chicago Sun-Times. ''When I saw nobody got in again, I go, 'Whoa, this is wrong.' They can't keep going the way they're going. They've got to put a [different] committee out there.''

"It'll be eight years now that they've voted and not let anybody in. And personally, I feel like there's a lot of guys that should've been in, not just me," Santo said, according to the Chicago Tribune.

However, Hall of Fame chairwoman Jane Forbes Clark noted that the goal of the two-stage veterans' process is not to elect someone every time they vote, according to the Sun-Times.

''The process was not redesigned with the goal of necessarily electing someone, but to give everyone on the ballot a very fair chance of earning election through a ballot of their peers,'' Clark said, according to the report.

Santo was an All-Star nine times. He finished his career with 342 home runs, 1,331 RBIs, a .277 lifetime batting average and five Gold Gloves.

While the post-1943 committee did not elect anyone to the hall, a smaller panel of just 12 members voting on players from 1942 and before did add a member to Cooperstown: New York Yankees and Cleveland Indians second baseman Joe Gordon.

"They have to change it," Santo said, according to the Tribune. "They're going to still have a Veterans Committee, but it should go back to where it was [in the '90s] when Bill Mazeroski got in. I think they should have a committee of maybe 12 guys that vote, that's the way to do it.

"Evaluate everyone, but instead of having all the [Hall of Fame] players vote, maybe just a couple players, a couple broadcasters, a couple writers -- a much smaller group. That's how [Joe] Gordon got in."

Santo said his life would not change because he's not in the Hall of Fame -- but he still believes he belongs in Cooperstown.

''Getting in or not getting in is not going to change my life at all. I'm going to be me, and that's it," Santo said, according to the Sun-Times. "But I feel I deserve this. I put up Hall of Fame numbers during the greatest era of baseball for pitchers, and I played with diabetes. Only diabetics can know what I went through. It would have just been satisfying [to be elected].''

************************

So now Ron should get special consideration simply because he has diabetes? 

And we need to reform the system so "somebody gets elected."  Translation:  "So Ron Santo gets elected." 

I don't mean to be extra cruel, but Ronnie doesn't have a leg to stand on.  He was a good but not great ballplayer that played for a good but not great team.  He therefore should be elected to the Hall of the Good but not Great, not Baseball's Hall of Fame. 

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #11: December 09, 2008, 03:34:31 PM »
So now Ron should get special consideration simply because he has diabetes?  

If that's the criteria, then all I need to do is start playing professional baseball!

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #12: December 09, 2008, 03:38:22 PM »
Quote
So now Ron should get special consideration simply because he has diabetes?   

Young is a sure fire first ballot then

Offline soxfan59

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #13: December 09, 2008, 06:14:36 PM »
Well, here in Chicago, the furor over Santo's snub has died down in the wake of the Governor's arrest on corruption charges.  If its not one thing, its another. 

Besides, Blago's a Cubs fan.  At least the Mayor of Chicago and the President elect pull for the real team from Chicago.

And nobody got my attempt at my in-poor-taste gallows humor?

The remark about Santo "not having a leg to stand on?"

Come on Ronnie!


Offline soxfan59

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #14: December 09, 2008, 06:23:40 PM »
I don't give a crap about Ron Santos.

this thread is now about cheesecake.

(Image removed from quote.)





best cheesecake on the planet, imo.



And I thought THIS was cheesecake!


Offline tomterp

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #15: December 09, 2008, 07:39:58 PM »
And nobody got my attempt at my in-poor-taste gallows humor?

The remark about Santo "not having a leg to stand on?"

I did not get that.  Did Santo lose a leg as a result of his diabetes?

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #16: December 09, 2008, 08:15:49 PM »
I did not get that.  Did Santo lose a leg as a result of his diabetes?

I think he lost both.

Offline soxfan59

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Re: No thread on the HOF Veteran's Commitee Vote?
« Reply #17: December 09, 2008, 10:05:47 PM »
I think he lost both.

That is correct.  Below the knee.