Storen and Harper on Stats

[houston-nat]

Storen was already familiar with PITCHf/x when I interviewed him five-and-a-half years ago. He still utilizes the tool, typically to review his release point, and relies heavily on video to “make sure everything is in tune.”

Monitoring his mechanics and the depth he’s getting on his deliveries is an off-the-field endeavor. His mind’s eye is equally attentive on the mound.

“I see the pitch in my head when I get the sign,” said Storen. “Mentally, I’m already throwing it. Some guys just throw to a target, but I’ve always seen the whole pitch. I visualize it relevant to the hitter, especially a breaking ball. I want it eating the strike zone for as long as possible as it gets to the plate.”

More often than not, Storen’s offerings chew up opposing batters. Last year’s 1.8 walk rate was a career low, and despite not being overpowering, he logs his fair share of punch outs. Part pugilist, part chess master, he goes with the flow.

“You think ahead, but you also make a move at each point,” said Storen. “You obviously try to set pitches up, but it’s kind of like golf. You have to make the most of the situation you’re in. Sometimes you have to hit it around a tree.”

——

Bryce Harper has a curious view of baseball history. In his opinion, players’ individual numbers don’t matter, only the success of their teams. That was my takeaway from a conversation with the Nationals outfielder earlier this week.

I asked Harper which stats he’s most interested in when he looks at the all-times greats. His answer wasn’t what I expected.

“I don’t really look at numbers,” Harper told me. “I don’t really care about stats. I just like watching baseball. I don’t look at homers or anything like that. I have no clue. I’ve never been a stats guy.”

I suggested that a reference point is necessary to judge players. His response – presumably not spoken in jest – left me confounded.

“I guess it would have to be World Series titles,” said the 22-year-old. “If you were on a good team, you must have been a good player. If you look at the old-school Yankees, you have Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Roger Maris. All those guys who played back in the day, like Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, won rings.”

Playing devil’s advocate, I told him Ted Williams never won a World Series.

“Yeah, I mean he was a great player, but I grew up watching ESPN Classic and seeing all those teams,” responded Harper. “But I wasn’t interested in the stats, My dad was never a big stats guy and I grew up not being a stats guy. We just worried about who was winning and who was losing, not what anyone was doing personally.”

Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth’s home run record. Barry Bonds eclipsed Aaron’s. Those are individual accomplishments, and surely they matter?

“You get a home run record you get a home run record, but how many World Series titles do you have?,” said Harper, “To me, you play the game for team records and try to get as many rings as you can.”

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/sunday-notes-bryce-on-stats-storen-gausman-eflin-almora-more/

There is also an interview with Steve McCatty about his playing career, and who he told Al Kaline was his biggest sports hero.

[Slateman]

So in Bryce's mind, Ted Williams was not as good as Aaron Boone

[tomwvr]

No in Harpers mind it is a TEAM game and Team results are more important then individual results.

[UMDNats]

Players can't get caught up in stats because it can get in their head. That's more for the coaches, management, etc. to utilize. I don't think Harper's viewpoint is wrong or even uncommon.

[Baseball is Life]

Players can't get caught up in stats because it can get in their head. That's more for the coaches, management, etc. to utilize. I don't think Harper's viewpoint is wrong or even uncommon.

I used to think that until I started to listen to FP talk about how he thought about his stats and performance in any particular game. You know, "Last AB is your chance to go from 0-4 to 1-4, which is not a bad night."

[Kevrock]

Those are game to game stats and not cumulative. Of course you're going to know how your current game is going. Harper is commenting about career milestone stats and the such.

[houston-nat]

Players can't get caught up in stats because it can get in their head. That's more for the coaches, management, etc. to utilize.

There are some famous counterexamples to this, most notably Joey Votto but also Brandon McCarthy and Adam Ottavino. And really cerebral players like Miguel Cabrera and Greg Maddux might not use saber stats, but they think about the game in a really analytical way while preparing and playing.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

There are some famous counterexamples to this, most notably Joey Votto but also Brandon McCarthy and Adam Ottavino. And really cerebral players like Miguel Cabrera and Greg Maddux might not use saber stats, but they think about the game in a really analytical way while preparing and playing.

oddly enough, that was Manny Ramirez's reputation as a hitter.  Video, ability to break it down, well before most of this stuff was digitized and available on more than tape.  Ramirez was known to spot a weakness in a pitcher, perhaps take a pitch or make it look effective early in a game, so that the guy would come back to it in a big at bat.

[whytev]

I used to think that until I started to listen to FP talk about how he thought about his stats and performance in any particular game. You know, "Last AB is your chance to go from 0-4 to 1-4, which is not a bad night."

That's different. Nobody wants to 0fer.

[Baseball is Life]

That's different. Nobody wants to 0fer.

You are jumping on a specific example. If you listen to FP enough, you can tell he was a player who constantly thought about stats. Stuff like, "If you see the Nats pitching staff coming, you know you could easily get shut out at the plate and see your average go south."

[Baseball is Life]

Those are game to game stats and not cumulative. Of course you're going to know how your current game is going. Harper is commenting about career milestone stats and the such.

There are numerous examples of players who obsessed about their career milestones. Pete Rose and Wade Boggs come to mind.

[whytev]

You are jumping on a specific example. If you listen to FP enough, you can tell he was a player who constantly thought about stats. Stuff like, "If you see the Nats pitching staff coming, you know you could easily get shut out at the plate and see your average go south."

I jumped on the only example you provided. But I agree.

Williams lifted Span in the last game because he was North of .300, you can bet. I mean, they do think, but not in the box. Probably just in the on deck circle. And not all of them.

[UMDNats]

There are some famous counterexamples to this, most notably Joey Votto but also Brandon McCarthy and Adam Ottavino. And really cerebral players like Miguel Cabrera and Greg Maddux might not use saber stats, but they think about the game in a really analytical way while preparing and playing.

Absolutely. I think guys like Harper, who say they don't really care for stats, still use statistics in their internal analysis (i.e., I'm hitting .150 on pitches low and away, gotta stay off it) but don't care much for some of the predictive stuff. Which makes sense - players can't think about their FIP or BABIP or crap.

[PebbleBall]

I'm confused by the point of this.  Don't you think Harper uses video, swing data, and engages in the pitch-to-pitch chess match of an at bat?

[PebbleBall]

Absolutely. I think guys like Harper, who say they don't really care for stats, still use statistics in their internal analysis (i.e., I'm hitting .150 on pitches low and away, gotta stay off it) but don't care much for some of the predictive stuff. Which makes sense - players can't think about their FIP or BABIP or crap.

Give me a good pitcher with a simple "just win the game" mentality, and a front office to use every analytical tool at its disposal. 

[blue911]

You're talking about a sport where the worst thing a player can say about a teammate is " He plays for his stats". I doubt you'll find anything more than Votto saying he believes that getting on base is of paramount importance and he takes a ton of suit for no reason.

[Kevrock]

There are numerous examples of players who obsessed about their career milestones. Pete Rose and Wade Boggs come to mind.

Okay?

[UMDNats]

I'm confused by the point of this.  Don't you think Harper uses video, swing data, and engages in the pitch-to-pitch chess match of an at bat?

Of course he does.

[NatsDad14]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't recall many of those teams playing on ESPN Classic. I can't recall a pre-1975 MLB game that ESPN Classic showed. I can't even recall many baseball games they have shown. I really doubt he was watching Mickey Mantle on ESPN Classic. I'm not sure if ESPN Classic ever had the rights to broadcast those old games.