Author Topic: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?  (Read 8870 times)

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Offline Kevrock

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #200: August 20, 2012, 01:33:31 PM »
Why would Jackson agree to being underpaid?

He's already won a ring with the Cardinals last year. He should look to maximize the amount of money he can make before he hits his decline.

Because he'll want to Threepeat.

Online aspenbubba

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #201: August 20, 2012, 02:32:53 PM »
I'd rather let LaRoche walk and go after an upgrade in the outfield, and definitely extend JZ while it's still possible

I think the only way ALR leaves is on his own volition and not the Nats choice.I really see him back here next year due to him not contributing in 2011 ( a home town discount if you will).I think that decision will be made after the season and if the Nats come close to winning it all I see the team returning intact minus a few tweaks to the 'pen ,one bench bat and resigning EJax.   

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #202: August 20, 2012, 02:35:42 PM »
I really see him back here next year due to him not contributing in 2011 ( a home town discount if you will)

no one expects the team to be sentimental (see Lannan), why would you expect it from a player?

Offline tomterp

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #203: August 20, 2012, 09:48:40 PM »
Why would Jackson agree to being underpaid?

Because at the margins a few $million just doesn't matter.

For example, he forgoes a $60m contract offer to accept our $48m over the same period of years.  What is he going to have to give up that he can't afford, but could have if he'd have taken the higher offer? 

Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #204: August 20, 2012, 11:10:17 PM »
Because at the margins a few $million just doesn't matter.

For example, he forgoes a $60m contract offer to accept our $48m over the same period of years.  What is he going to have to give up that he can't afford, but could have if he'd have taken the higher offer?
amen :money: def if he knows he will be on a good ball club, plus he says he loves it here in the DMV

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #205: August 20, 2012, 11:19:38 PM »
He came to DC this year for less money, so who knows.  It doesn't make sense to me to break the bank on him when we have other holes to fill - namely CF.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #206: August 21, 2012, 12:22:05 AM »
Because at the margins a few $million just doesn't matter.

For example, he forgoes a $60m contract offer to accept our $48m over the same period of years.  What is he going to have to give up that he can't afford, but could have if he'd have taken the higher offer? 

No player is going to give up 12 million dollars.

These guys need to sustain their lifestyles after they retire as well... they definitely need more money than most would, to make it through retirement.

Offline Hogie

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #207: August 21, 2012, 01:33:20 AM »
Because at the margins a few $million just doesn't matter.

For example, he forgoes a $60m contract offer to accept our $48m over the same period of years.  What is he going to have to give up that he can't afford, but could have if he'd have taken the higher offer? 

That makes perfect sense logically, but all these athletes are greedy pigs.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #208: August 21, 2012, 01:41:26 AM »
Amanda Comak ‏@acomak
Edwin Jackson on going to 'pen 2 days after 103P, 7 Inn: "I wasn’t doing it for heroism. The bullpen was done... It’s not a give-away game."

Offline GMUTrkstar

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #209: August 21, 2012, 08:17:46 AM »
2 years 28 million w/ a mutual 3rd year option. After two years Meyer/Purke/Solis/(maybe Giolito) should be ready to step into the rotation.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #210: August 21, 2012, 08:19:18 AM »
Ejax will want a minimum of 3 years, probably 4. I'm sure he's to the point where he doesn't want to move around for a while.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #211: August 21, 2012, 08:20:20 AM »
These guys need to sustain their lifestyles after they retire as well... they definitely need more money than most would, to make it through retirement.

 :lmao:

Offline tomterp

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #212: August 21, 2012, 08:22:44 AM »
That makes perfect sense logically, but all these athletes are greedy pigs.

It's an ego/business thing.  The clubs are trying to minimize how much they pay, so players are almost obligated to take the opposing view.

It's also cultural, if you take a below market contract other players aren't happy about it, and your agent loses cred.  So their is pressure to maximize returns.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with actually needing the money.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #213: August 21, 2012, 08:25:56 AM »
Amanda Comak ‏@acomak
Edwin Jackson on going to 'pen 2 days after 103P, 7 Inn: "I wasn’t doing it for heroism. The bullpen was done... It’s not a give-away game."

This guy gets it.  He's a solid pitcher and a terrific all-around athlete.  He's a baseball player beyond being a pitcher.  Plus,  he's got a great attitude and team first guy.  I'd love to see them lock him up for 3 more.

Offline aussienatsfan

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #214: August 21, 2012, 08:29:33 AM »
This guy gets it.  He's a solid pitcher and a terrific all-around athlete.  He's a baseball player beyond being a pitcher.  Plus,  he's got a great attitude and team first guy.  I'd love to see them lock him up for 3 more.

I agree, I sometimes get frustrated watching him pitch knowing how good his stuff can be, but I value guys
Ike him ever so much - I'm glad he didn't have to throw in the game, but the fact he stood up and said he was ready is a credit to him

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #215: August 21, 2012, 08:34:12 AM »
It's an ego/business thing.  The clubs are trying to minimize how much they pay, so players are almost obligated to take the opposing view.

It's also cultural, if you take a below market contract other players aren't happy about it, and your agent loses cred.  So their is pressure to maximize returns.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with actually needing the money.

it's a job- no one expects bankers, executives, lawyers... to take 20% less than they could get elsewhere (to use your 48 instead of 60 million example), why should athletes be different?

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #216: August 21, 2012, 08:36:16 AM »
This guy gets it.  He's a solid pitcher and a terrific all-around athlete.  He's a baseball player beyond being a pitcher.  Plus,  he's got a great attitude and team first guy.  I'd love to see them lock him up for 3 more.

I agree. He has a good track record and is, at worst, a #4/#5 pitcher. He's a workhorse and we've been lucky this year with pitching injuries, so his 200+ IP could come in handy next year/2014.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #217: August 21, 2012, 08:39:07 AM »
I agree. He has a good track record and is, at worst, a #4/#5 pitcher. He's a workhorse and we've been lucky this year with pitching injuries, so his 200+ IP could come in handy next year/2014.

He's also a savvy veteran with lots of post season experience. I hope we re-sign him too. He's really been good for us this year.

Offline LostYudite

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #218: August 21, 2012, 09:37:13 AM »
:lmao:

Terp, I get where you're coming from here, but I think you're seriously underestimating the difference of "a few million."  Sure, to you and me it seems like it's so much that there's little difference, but that doesn't mean that athletes (like any other high-earning, short-term profession) shouldn't maximize their earning potential over the lifetime of their careers.  As with any employment decision, you'd expect the player to want to weigh the full situation, including how much he likes playing there, chances for non-monetary compensation (championship!), etc.  But at the end of the day, if I'm his agent, and the Nats offer 2/28 with a mutual option at 15m, and the Braves offer 4/52, I'm telling him to take his talents to Atlanta.

As I said weeks ago, I'm all in favor of resigning him, but I think his cost is going to be so high that it's worth taking a hard look at Greinke in comparison.  Where I think my opinion is changing is that I'm not sure why we wouldn't want EJ on a 4-year deal*.  The #1 underrated factor for the Nats this year is health of the starting pitching.  The Nats have had only seven guys start games for them this year, and one of those (Lannan) was only because of the way the schedule fell.  Put another way, of 112 games so far, only 6 have been started by somebody other than the normal starting 5 - that's an amazing run of health.  If you're shutting Stras down and playing for the long playoff run then you have to do everything you can to insure that you can compete in years where you're not as lucky as we have been this year with pitcher health.  EJ would be a big step in that direction. 

*- and before somebody throws the list of pitching prospects at me, yes, I know Solis, Purke, Meyer, Giolito, etc.  But how many of those guys are really going to be better than EJ?  How many of them will be better than EJ in the next 2-3 years?  The other major underrated factor of EJ is that he's 28.  Feels much older because he's been around so long, but he's easily got 4-5 more years of prime pitching left. 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #219: August 21, 2012, 10:04:06 AM »
Fangraphs  piece on the two one-year contract wonders among last year's FA pitchers:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/kuroda-jackson-one-year-contract-wonders/
Quote
Prior to this past offseason, five of Dave Cameron’s top ten free agents were starting pitchers. Both CC Sabathia (#3) and C.J. Wilson (#5) landed mega-contracts while Roy Oswalt (#9) decided to take the Pedro Martinez/Roger Clemens route and sign midseason. The other two guys — Hiroki Kuroda (#8) and Edwin Jackson (#10) — signed nearly identical one-year contracts. Eight months later, they share another thing in common: they’re pitching for the team with the best record in their respective league.
. . .
Jackson . . . is right smack in the prime of his career and did in fact receive a multi-year offer, a three-year contract worth more than $30 million from the Pirates according to Ken Rosenthal. He instead opted for the one-year pillow contract, a Scott Boras specialty. Whether he increased his stock is up for debate.

Despite his relatively down year, Jackson should have no trouble landing a multi-year guarantee after the season, perhaps to remain with the Nationals.

Author notes that this may even be considered a slightly down year for Jackson.  He's likely to end up throwing less than 200 IP at about the high end of his range of ERA over 2009 - 2012 period.  Still, if he ends up around 2.5 WAR instead of the 3.5+ he had over the prior 3 years, he is well worth the money to a team in the high 80s / low 90s win territory we would have been without him.

Online aspenbubba

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #220: August 21, 2012, 10:37:25 AM »
no one expects the team to be sentimental (see Lannan), why would you expect it from a player?

Because some players have re-signed with their former team at less than what they were offered by others, It is a MUTUAL option


Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #221: August 21, 2012, 01:43:56 PM »
I'm thinking you could sign him for a nominal increase over the Pirates offer, say 3/ $33MM, maybe with a player option if he throws 200 innings his first two years or his last year.  That prices him at a bit over 2.5 WAR in 2013, which is the kind of year he's having in 2012.  If he is aiming for the 4 -5 years, $15MM+ AAV market, then you avoid that.

Offline welch

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #222: August 21, 2012, 05:00:05 PM »
I'm not going to forget that Edwin Jackson went to the bullpen to win last night's game.


Offline aussienatsfan

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #223: August 22, 2012, 08:43:17 AM »
I'm not going to forget that Edwin Jackson went to the bullpen to win last night's game.



Agreed, all class

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Edwin Jackson - The Forgotten One?
« Reply #224: August 22, 2012, 09:12:15 AM »
It just goes to show he's very much a team player.  He's has a great appreciation for the Nationals, particularly Davy Johnson

I'm not going to forget that Edwin Jackson went to the bullpen to win last night's game.