"This medical staff still stinks" thread (2012)

[Tyler Durden]

Teahen isn't exactly mashing in AAA.  I'm not sure he'd be an upgrade.  I can live with Lombo playing 3B and some combination of Bernie, Nady, and Moore in LF.

I'm more worried about DeRosa.  He looks terrible.  Has trouble making any kind of contact, let alone solid contact.  It's possible he's done.

[MorseTheHorse]

welp...this is pathetic.  I was one of those people bashing the general doom and gloom nature of this board with regards to injuries earlier this year, but consider me converted to the gloom now.  The pattern of the severity of injuries being severely understated is undeniable now imo.   Put me firmly in the "time to get an all new medical staff" camp!

[The Chief]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

I suggest you guys stop getting so hung up on it.  If you're really that determined to vindicate the Nats' medical staff, why not do some research and provide some actual numbers?  Otherwise, who cares?  People dramatize things on the internet, news at 11

[imref]

Teahen isn't exactly mashing in AAA.  I'm not sure he'd be an upgrade.  I can live with Lombo playing 3B and some combination of Bernie, Nady, and Moore in LF.

I'm more worried about DeRosa.  He looks terrible.  Has trouble making any kind of contact, let alone solid contact.  It's possible he's done.

Yeah, proof that ST doesn't matter, I'm still not ready to give up on him yet though.

[imref]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

I suggest you guys stop getting so hung up on it.  If you're really that determined to vindicate the Nats' medical staff, why not do some research and provide some actual numbers?  Otherwise, who cares?  People dramatize things on the internet, news at 11

this.

[MorseTheHorse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

I suggest you guys stop getting so hung up on it.  If you're really that determined to vindicate the Nats' medical staff, why not do some research and provide some actual numbers?  Otherwise, who cares?  People dramatize things on the internet, news at 11

I am confused!  This seems to be directed to pro medical staff posts of which I can't really find one in this thread?  Or is it just to general overreaction?

[wpa2629]

If you think of it, it must be important!

LOL

[natsfan4evr]

Those amazing dives come at a price...Ryan is not Superman.
This just makes Cal's streak that much more incredible to me.

[Obed_Marsh]

...Ryan is not Superman.

Pfft. Cynic.

[Lintyfresh85]

Zimmerman, "I never feel pressure because I only play in 80 games a year."

[Fan037]

Is this going to be one of those things that start out as a sprain and end up a tear? 

We have the best starting five pitchers in the league.  Can they possibly keep winning without our number 3 and 4 hitters? 

Can you imagine our line-up if Werth was last year's version?

I guess that's enough questions for one day.

[welch]

Lombo to 3B full-time. Derosa sits until he proves he has some value. Lombo leads off, Desmond bats second, Espinosa around eighth (the traditional spot for a .220 hitter).

Moore? Not much time in AAA, and he's learning LF. I'd like to leave him in Syracuse.

Teahen? Well, he's out-hitting Moore in AAA, and he has some experience in the majors. Just as long as he goes to LF, and does not bump Lombo off 3B.

[Lintyfresh85]

Lombo to 3B full-time. Derosa sits until he proves he has some value. Lombo leads off, Desmond bats second, Espinosa around eighth (the traditional spot for a .220 hitter).

Moore? Not much time in AAA, and he's learning LF. I'd like to leave him in Syracuse.

Teahen? Well, he's out-hitting Moore in AAA, and he has some experience in the majors. Just as long as he goes to LF, and does not bump Lombo off 3B.

Teahen isn't out-hitting Moore in AAA.

[welch]

Teahen isn't out-hitting Moore in AAA.

Ah...corrected. Every time I look at the Syracuse stats,, they are clumped together at the top of the active players. Moore hitting about .290 with 6 HR; Teahen now at .268 with just about no HR. I'll take Moore, then...but he's got to start in LF to learn a bit.


http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ibp&cid=552&stn=true&sid=t552

[Baseball is Life]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

I suggest you guys stop getting so hung up on it.  If you're really that determined to vindicate the Nats' medical staff, why not do some research and provide some actual numbers?  Otherwise, who cares?  People dramatize things on the internet, news at 11

Is "If you think of it, it must be important!" the first step to mindfacting? After all, if it's important, it must be true, right?

And did you you mean "vilify" instead of "vindicate?"

[hammondsnats]

yeah i kinda want to see Tyler Moore now.

[nobleisthyname]

Is "If you think of it, it must be important!" the first step to mindfacting? After all, if it's important, it must be true, right?

And did you you mean "vilify" instead of "vindicate?"

This. I'm confused by what The Chief meant. He points out the fallacy a lot of the LoD commit when it comes to injuries but then seems to challenge those who don't commit the fallacy to step up (by using numbers to prove their claim) or shut up. This also doesn't make sense as there hasn't really been any pro-medical staff posts in this thread so it seems out of place here.

 

[The Chief]

And did you you mean "vilify" instead of "vindicate?"

No, I meant vindicate.  The "get over it" was directed at noble and others who insist that the Nationals have a competent/average medical staff.  Unless they provide something tangible to back up that opinion, arguing against the internet is a pointless endeavor for the reasons I listed (availability heuristic, internet histrionics, etc.)

It's a pointless endeavor even WITH proof, but especially so without it

[nobleisthyname]

No, I meant vindicate.  The "get over it" was directed at noble and others who insist that the Nationals have a competent/average medical staff.  Unless they provide something tangible to back up that opinion, arguing against the internet is a pointless endeavor for the reasons I listed (availability heuristic, internet histrionics, etc.)

It's a pointless endeavor even WITH proof, but especially so without it

Ah, I see. I would like to note that I've never called our medical staff competent. But from what I've gotten from following other teams' injuries this kind of stuff DOES seem to happen all the time, not just to the Nats. Personally I don't see any evidence that points to our medical staff as being below average.

Further, the number of correctly predicted injury return timetables far outweighs the incorrect ones. Off the top of my head just from this season alone (dating back to ST) there has been Burnett, Bernadina, LaRoche, Ankiel, Wang* (actually ahead of schedule), Harper, Werth, and Espinosa who have had an injury of some sort and returned around their predicted time.

If I ever cared enough (which is a big if) I probably could make a more formal argument in favor of the Nats having at least an average medical staff, but that's really more work than it's worth considering it would most likely be ignored anyway.

I do find it interesting that you didn't call out those actually committing the fallacy to back their claim up, seems a little backward doesn't it? 

[shoeshineboy]

It's important to distinguish between the training staff and the medical staff. And the training staff is not to be confused with strength training people get at the gym. Lee Kuntz is a quality trainer who came out of one of the most well respected systems in the game. I have been very happy with the way he has worked to rehab guys, and the system he came from in Cleveland was responsible for extending guys careers by preventing them from coming back too early. It has been better since he came in. Before that we had guys like Guillen rushing back early and killing the lineup.

The actual medical staff is questionable. I feel like they are friends of the Lerners and not the best staff. That said, injuries happen and there isn't much to do to prevent that. It's better to handle the  rest and rehab properly. It does seem they delay the MRIs consistently. But that isn't necessarily uncommon. They are expensive and time consuming. And if a guy ends up needing to go on the DL, it is retroactive anyway. It does seem sometimes though that the actual physicians involved are running things more like a private practice than a baseball operation dealing with 100M dollar athletes.

[MarquisDeSade]

It does seem sometimes though that the actual physicians involved are running things more like a private practice than a baseball operation dealing with 100M dollar athletes.

The problem there is if it really is a case of "cost cutting" that might be the worst example of pennywise and pound foolish.

[RL04]

While Morse and Zimm are out, we have a major league pitching staff and a AAA hitting line-up.

We're screwed.

[LostYudite]

Ah, I see. I would like to note that I've never called our medical staff competent.

Me neither. 

"I've seen it a lot with other teams," is precisely the availability heuristic that Chief linked.  Saying it doesn't make it so.

But I will avoid questioning the almighty and omniscient Nats docs who clearly are all the top of their field.

[Lintyfresh85]

Im'ma guess the longer we don't hear news on Zimmerman, the worse it'll turn out to be.

I'll just take a wild stab. Torn labrum.

[blue911]

Im'ma guess the longer we don't hear news on Zimmerman, the worse it'll turn out to be.

They probably are waiting for the committee to give the okay to buy some Advil.