Um: John Lannan Appreciation Thread?

[JMUalumni]

Tom,

Thanks for putting that list up, did you use to the sortable statistics to find that on BP?  It is quite amazing to see what pitchers some of our own guys fall between, in particular Lannan. He is surrounded by guys like Santana, Loshe, Dice-K, Kazmir, C.C.

[blue911]

For the love of God, can we really be destroying our bullpen over bunts? Maybe Manny should be fired. I'm serious. This has been a problem since '05. Last night, with a 5-0 lead, they could have stretched Lannan out a bit.

As bad as our hitters are, we need every at bat to count. Letting pitchers off because that isn't "their job" is silly. It is their job. When you stand in the batters box,you aren't a pitcher you're a batter.

[PANatsFan]

Er, I wish to remind you that the reason they were up 5-0, is BECAUSE Flores pinch hit for Lannan.  Else, the game's still 2-0. 

Sorry. As soon as I posted it I realized I should have checked the box score. Haven't been following as closely as I'd like this week.

[PANatsFan]

As bad as our hitters are, we need every at bat to count. Letting pitchers off because that isn't "their job" is silly. It is their job. When you stand in the batters box,you aren't a pitcher you're a batter.

I'm agreeing with you 100%. Hence the "fire Manny" comment. Why the hell doesn't he make them take bunting practice? It's not like they are overpaid primadonnas. Hell, Lannan and Balestar are rookies. I also hate the use of DH's in the minors. Really hate it.

[blue911]

Sorry. As soon as I posted it I realized I should have checked the box score. Haven't been following as closely as I'd like this week.

The other part was Lannan hitting into a inning ending double play with the bases loaded. Which is way I said that Tolman or Aponte should be working with these guys.

[tomterp]

Tom,

Thanks for putting that list up, did you use to the sortable statistics to find that on BP? 

Yes, easy download to Excel.  I sorted out pitchers with less than 5 starts.

[spidernat]

Er, I wish to remind you that the reason they were up 5-0, is BECAUSE Flores pinch hit for Lannan.  Else, the game's still 2-0. 

QFT

Lannan is now 29th in VORP among all major league pitchers.  By this statistical measure, he's a #1 starter.

  I like Lannan but I don't think he'll ever be a number 1. It's nice to imagine him being our 3rd or 4th starter though when we have at least 2 or 3 pitchers who are better.

[spidernat]

Why the hell doesn't he make them take bunting practice?

What makes you think that they don't make them practice bunting all the time? I think these guys are just awful when it comes to executing during games.

[Mathguy]

That leaves Lannan with a ERA of about 3.50.  Good, but nothing to write home about.

Lannan is unbelievably consistent. Out of 18 starts this season, 13 were "quality starts".

July 9: 6 IP 0 ER
July 3: 6 IP 3 ER
June 28: 5 IP 4 ER
June 22: 6 IP 2 ER
June 17: 7 IP 2 ER
June 11: 6 IP 2 ER
June 5: 6 IP 2 ER
May 29: 6 IP 2 ER
May 24: 5 IP 3 ER
May 18: 7.1 IP 1 ER
May 13: 6 IP 4 ER
May 8: 6 IP 1 ER
May 2: 3 IP 6 ER
Apr 27: 7 IP 0 ER
Apr 22: 7 IP 0 ER
Apr 17: 6 IP 1 ER
Apr 12: 4 IP 6 ER
Apr 6: 6.2 IP 2 ER
 
NL Leaders - Quality Starts
Haren 15
Lincecum 15
Hudson 15
Santana 14
Lannan 13
Webb 13
Volquez 13
Hamels 13
Zambrano 13

[The Chief]

I like him and I think he'll be around for a while but I'd be a lot happier if he could pitch 7 full a little more often... or a lot more

[spidernat]

He's very young but I expect to see him stretch his outings to 7 innings consistently by next year, if they let him.

[tomterp]

I like Lannan but I don't think he'll ever be a number 1. It's nice to imagine him being our 3rd or 4th starter though when we have at least 2 or 3 pitchers who are better.

Nobody seems to have a consistent definition of what a #1 is, so I have adopted a clear cut statistical ranking as being the way I look at it. 

30 teams x 5 starters = 150 pitchers.  The top 30 must be #1's, the next 30 #2, etc.  I like VORP because it's ballpark and league adjusted, unlike ERA's.  Of course, the VORP stat is somewhat arbitrary, as are all stats that involve weightings of different factors, or judgement.  So we can argue till the cows come home and it's never resolvable.

But right now, season to date, Lannan just makes the top 30, so he's a #1 (barely) for now.  A lower case #1 perhaps, not an "ace", but one of the top 30 starters in the game.

[spidernat]

I understood how you were arriving at your conclusion but I just don't consider Lannan a number 1 no matter what BP stats indicate.

[hammondsnats]

I understood how you were arriving at your conclusion but I just don't consider Lannan a number 1 no matter what BP stats indicate.

Wow twice in one week, we agree?  I think Lannan will be a solid #3 or #4 guy for us for years to come.  Next year's rotation will probably look like:

1. FA signing/Tim Redding
2. Collin Balester
3. John Lannan

Then for spots 4 and 5: Jordan Zimmermann/T-Clip/Mock/Hill/Bergmann

[PANatsFan]

What makes you think that they don't make them practice bunting all the time? I think these guys are just awful when it comes to executing during games.

These guys are professional ball players. They had to swing a bat in high school, some of them played college ball and had to bat. They just need to remember. I'm not talking once a week. For each bad at-bat, that's one full day of bunting practice. Earn your pay!

[spidernat]

I'm hoping Redding is NOT our number 1 next year.

[hammondsnats]

I'm hoping Redding is NOT our number 1 next year.

OOPS!  I meant to include him in the #4/#5 guys.  My bad.  I wouldn't want that either. 

[Air Zimmerman]

Wow twice in one week, we agree?  I think Lannan will be a solid #3 or #4 guy for us for years to come.  Next year's rotation will probably look like:

1. FA signing/Tim Redding
2. Collin Balester
3. John Lannan

Then for spots 4 and 5: Jordan Zimmermann/T-Clip/Mock/Hill/Bergmann

BRING CC TO DC!!!

[CJames0569]

Wow twice in one week, we agree?  I think Lannan will be a solid #3 or #4 guy for us for years to come.  Next year's rotation will probably look like:

1. FA signing/Tim Redding
2. Collin Balester
3. John Lannan

Then for spots 4 and 5: Jordan Zimmermann/T-Clip/Mock/Hill/Bergmann

I hope we can include Crow and possibly Stephen Strasburg in next years rotation. In a couple years if some of these young guys pan out we definitely could have a pretty solid rotation.

[sportsfan882]

That leaves Lannan with a ERA of about 3.50.  Good, but nothing to write home about.

Nothing to write home about? 3.40 ERA in his first full season in the Majors? Some people here are real confused it seems. You find me a #4 starter with as good as numbers as Lannan let me know. He'd be in the hunt for the Cy Young if he was on a contending team (Sportsline.com made that remark about Lannan, not me).  Lannan is definitely a #1-2 Starter long-term. So he doesn't throw 99? Who cares? He knows how to get people out and is not easily flustered. I think a good comparison would be Mark Buehrle who has been the Sox's ace for years despite being a "relatively soft-tossing lefty" similar to Lannan. There are no rules that say that your Ace has to be a flamethrower that strikes a bunch of people out.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Nothing to write home about? 3.40 ERA in his first full season in the Majors? Some people here are real confused it seems. You find me a #4 starter with as good as numbers as Lannan let me know. He'd be in the hunt for the Cy Young if he was on a contending team (Sportsline.com made that remark about Lannan, not me).  Lannan is definitely a #1-2 Starter long-term. So he doesn't throw 99? Who cares? He knows how to get people out and is not easily flustered. I think a good comparison would be Mark Buehrle who has been the Sox's ace for years despite being a "relatively soft-tossing lefty" similar to Lannan. There are no rules that say that your Ace has to be a flamethrower that strikes a bunch of people out.

I totally agree with this, but I also agree that Lannan really isn't an "ace."

In order to be a true #1, I think you have to be able to be efficient with your pitches and yield a minimal number of baserunners.  Lannan seems to be able to do only one of those more often than not; hence, all of those games where he couldn't go 7 innings.  You want your ace to be a guy who can go 7-9 on good nights, allowing you to give your bullpen some rest.

[blue911]

John has been a good solid starter. I remember Don Sutton praising Tim Hudson because he went at least 6 innings in 60% of his starts. I'll take his 6 innings every start, he isn't the cause of bullpen fatigue.

[d_mc_nabb]

IMO, the criteria for an ace are at least three plus pitches, preferably/usually four, one of them dominant K pitch, with an ERA a highest in the mid 3's, and a good WHIP. )i don't know the average WHIP, so i can't give numbers for that.) he must be able to frequently strike people out.

I hope we can include Crow and possibly Stephen Strasburg in next years rotation. In a couple years if some of these young guys pan out we definitely could have a pretty solid rotation.

i posted something about this in a dif. thread, i think the #1 pick is ours. Strasburg, Detwiler, Crow could be our top 3, with Lannan at 4.

[wpa2629]

Strasburg
Crow
Ballester
Lannan
Zimmermann

 then Bergmann/Redding/Clippard/Mock - take your pick ...

Drool....

[wpa2629]

Yet another quality start for John -- ho hum -- what else is new? What is that ... 16??

Not at his sharpest today - - but he's such a cool customer on the mound -- I liked that he came back out and got a 1, 2, 3 in the 7th after he getting roughed up a bit in the 6th -- I'm so impressed with his consistency and demeanor -- too bad the boys couldn't put 15 up for ya John ... but good job today ...


And kudos to Joel for making the dodgers middle of the order look positively silly ...