Johnson to have more hip tests

[thunderstrucknatsfan]

hey thunderstuck...

i havent heard of anything on JP... do you know how he is doing?

i havent had alot of time to look around.  im just wondering? thats all..

i mean is he making any progress? getting better?

Erica,  Thanks for asking.  My understanding is that he either leaves tomorrow for Toronto or his treatments start tomorrow - I hope the latter.  They will last for approximately 18 days.  I hope we will have some updates on his progress as time goes on, but I don't know.  It sounds like a very rigorous and intensive program. Huston Street was quoted as saying that he had 1 1/2 hours in the hyperbaric chamber each day and 1/2 hour of injections as well as treatments involving lasers, chiropractors, frequency specific micro -currents, physical therapy, etc., etc.
Presumeably Patterson will have similar treatments.  Street has an irritated ulnar nerve, and JP's problem is his radial nerve. It appears he has been having nearly constant, burning type pain in his elbow area. The pain comes and goes unexpectedly.  JP is very anxious to pitch again this season, which is one of the reasons he chose this course of treatment over surgery which would end his season now.  Street seems to be doing well, is already throwing from the mound, and is expected to return July 20.  Patterson will be about a month behind him, and since he is a starter and Street is a closer, it might take JP a little longer.  If things work out for him, he COULD possibly be pitching again by the end of August or the 1st week in September.  If I hear anything about his progress in Toronto, I will post it here for the very few who are interested. 

Spider, I don't think he will be looking for other opinions - that's what he was doing on his cross-country tour and apparently the doctors pretty much agreed on the diagnosis a compressed radial nerve - and the treatment (surgery).  If this fails - and I certainly hope that it doesn't - I believe he will have surgery.

 

[shoeshineboy]

I'm all for trying these alternative treatments, you never know what will happen. Hopefully it will work out. But I also hope that he approaches this as something that either shows clear results or will be stopped in favor of a surgical option. I understand wanting to pitch this year, and give him credit for trying something. At a minimum it is important to actually know the source of the problem. If a surgical option does exist, and these treatments don't yield significant results, I hope he opts for that. The important thing is that he believes in whatever choice he makes.

[spidernat]

What is the deal with delaying surgery? Is it that he feels surgery will essentially spell the end of his career? If so, then I can understand his desperation. He may want to make a token comeback to show a glimmer of hope in order to score one more contract. On the other hand, if that isn't the case, he has only delayed or pushed back precious recovery time for next season (if he's going to be useful to some other organization).

[nats2playoffs]

"A's RP Huston Street threw 30 pitches from halfway up the mound Friday as he works his way back from irritation in his right ulnar nerve.  (Updated 07/06/2007)."

I think the idea is that surgery creates more scar tissue and may not even solve the problem.  If we were simply talking about surgically repairing a torn tendon or the like, it predictably solves the problem.  My impression is that messing around with a nerve may be more complicated medically, since you want full use of the elbow and not just to temporarily stop pain or burning. 

Huston Street's 30 pitches are enough to close a typical game, so if it works for him it can work for Patterson.  My preference is to get J.P. back fast, and get value for the $850,000 we're paying him for 2007.  Starting pitcher Rich Harden made three good relief appearances in June for Oakland and was quickly bombed when he tried to start and pitch a 3rd inning Saturday.  Similarly, Philadelphia plans to use Brett Myers in relief only when he returns from rehab.  30 pitches are less stressful than 95 pitches.

[tomterp]

30 pitches are less stressful than 95 pitches.

But, 30 pitches 3 times over 5 days is more stressful than 95 pitchers once every 5 days, since the warmup # of pitches adds stress over and above the pitch counts themselves.

[thunderstrucknatsfan]

Here is an update on Street

"Street threw again on Sunday, this time from all the way up on the mound. He threw 30 pitches and felt like he could have thrown more.

"It went really well today," Street said. "I felt strong and felt like I could have gone more. It's good to feel strong."

Street is going to Arizona over the All-Star break and will continue throwing there. When the A's go to Minnesota to open the second half, he will remain in Arizona.

Street will rejoin the A's when they come home on July 16 to open a series with the Texas Rangers, and he will be evaluated again at that time."

Something I find interesting in following Street's recovery is that he started out throwing on flat ground, then threw from a third if the way up the mound, with the catcher in front of the plate, then gradually moved up the mound in successive days until he was throwing from the top of the mound as a pitcher would normally do.  The progression from flat ground to the mound is usual of course, but I have never read of working one's way up the mound.  Is this the usual way to rehab?  It seems like a good idea, but I have never read of it before.  It also seems that the As don't send their pitchers out for many rehab starts in the minors, but put them in the bullpen and let them pitch in a few games in relief - on a pitch count - until they are stretched out enough to return to the starting rotation.  Last year, one of the reasons given for Patterson not to return to pitching, was that the minor leagues had already ended their season and there was no place for him to make rehab starts.   If the same  situation arises this year, couldn't Acta follow this procedure of letting him pitch an inning or 2 in games until he is stretched out to 5 or 6 innings?  It makes sense to me, but what do I know?

I doubt that Patterson has much faith in surgery after last year.  That was supposed to cure the nerve problem, but instead, after almost a year, he still has arm pain and weakness in his arm.  However, if it comes down to have the surgery or quit, I am sure he would have the surgery.  But even "minor" surgery is no particular joy, and especially when you don't know whether or not it is going to cure the problem!

[tomterp]

Here's a few comments on Nick Johnson by Will Carroll, of Baseball Prospectus:

Nick Johnson seemed to make some progress with his comeback in the late spring, but since then, there's been no real news. In this case, no news wasn't good news, because what we have now could be really bad. Johnson saw Dr. Brian Kelly, a doctor who's known for his work in football, about his weakened right hip. Since this comes on top of his recovery from the broken femur, the first thought is that Johnson may be dealing with osteonecrosis in that hip. If you remember Bo Jackson, the term might be familiar to you. Johnson's not likely to be at that stage of severity, but the team is going to have a battery of tests run to try to pinpoint the problem. If you're waiting on Johnson's comeback this season, it's looking very unlikely at this stage.

[JMW IV]

So spider, are we ready to concede that we should be in the market for a permanent first baseman?

[PANatsFan]

Here's a few comments on Nick Johnson by Will Carroll, of Baseball Prospectus:

Nick Johnson seemed to make some progress with his comeback in the late spring, but since then, there's been no real news. In this case, no news wasn't good news, because what we have now could be really bad. Johnson saw Dr. Brian Kelly, a doctor who's known for his work in football, about his weakened right hip. Since this comes on top of his recovery from the broken femur, the first thought is that Johnson may be dealing with osteonecrosis in that hip. If you remember Bo Jackson, the term might be familiar to you. Johnson's not likely to be at that stage of severity, but the team is going to have a battery of tests run to try to pinpoint the problem. If you're waiting on Johnson's comeback this season, it's looking very unlikely at this stage.

Osteonecrosis - dead bone? Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

Can you play 1st base with an artificial hip?

[tomterp]

Of course, this is just speculation on Carroll's part, but it does raise the possibility that Nick's career is in deep jeopardy.  Ugh.

[nats2playoffs]

I posted in another thread that we could trade Dmitri Young to the Angels for about $3 million in value.  One of their two AAA 1st baseman wouldn't be enough for renting Dmitri, but one should be included in a deal.

The Angels have Casey Kotchman producing well for them at 1st base (although in a slump now), and Robb Quinlan has played there.  They have two 1st basemen in AAA who are both hitting close to .300:
Mike Eylward, age 27
Kendry Morales, age 24

[PANatsFan]

Kendry Morales straight up for Dmitri. Maybe a Rookie league guy from them, too.

[spidernat]

So spider, are we ready to concede that we should be in the market for a permanent first baseman?

I'd have no issue with that. I'm not in love with any player on the team. They're all dispensable as far as I'm concerned. I don't forge personal bonds with any players. I'm not into the idea of 'nice guys', 'true Nats', 'players that are members of this message board' or 'heart warming stories'. I want a team of dependable players. Guys that are going to produce and help this team win ballgames.

To be honest with you, I think it's too bad that Chris Marrero is still a couple years away because he would probably be a nice player to groom for that position.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

We got one...

So spider, are we ready to concede that we should be in the market for a permanent first baseman?

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Floyd Landis (last year's Tour de France winner, crap evidence of doping notwithstanding) will be cycling on an artificial hip in 2008.  Several world-class alpine skiers have had joint replacement as well, mostly knees, but at least one hip that I know of. 

My mother in law just had both knees replaced, and was walking around all over the place within a couple of weeks. Joint replacement isn't quite like having your hair cut, but it certainly ain't career ending these days, that's for sure.

Osteonecrosis - dead bone? Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

Can you play 1st base with an artificial hip?

[Ericas Nats]

Erica,  Thanks for asking.  My understanding is that he either leaves tomorrow for Toronto or his treatments start tomorrow - I hope the latter.  They will last for approximately 18 days.  I hope we will have some updates on his progress as time goes on, but I don't know.  It sounds like a very rigorous and intensive program. Huston Street was quoted as saying that he had 1 1/2 hours in the hyperbaric chamber each day and 1/2 hour of injections as well as treatments involving lasers, chiropractors, frequency specific micro -currents, physical therapy, etc., etc.
Presumeably Patterson will have similar treatments.  Street has an irritated ulnar nerve, and JP's problem is his radial nerve. It appears he has been having nearly constant, burning type pain in his elbow area. The pain comes and goes unexpectedly.  JP is very anxious to pitch again this season, which is one of the reasons he chose this course of treatment over surgery which would end his season now.  Street seems to be doing well, is already throwing from the mound, and is expected to return July 20.  Patterson will be about a month behind him, and since he is a starter and Street is a closer, it might take JP a little longer.  If things work out for him, he COULD possibly be pitching again by the end of August or the 1st week in September.  If I hear anything about his progress in Toronto, I will post it here for the very few who are interested. 

Spider, I don't think he will be looking for other opinions - that's what he was doing on his cross-country tour and apparently the doctors pretty much agreed on the diagnosis a compressed radial nerve - and the treatment (surgery).  If this fails - and I certainly hope that it doesn't - I believe he will have surgery.

 

oh bummer, thanks for the info.

[2k6nats]

Johnson diagnosed with burstitis
http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070711&content_id=2082572&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

WASHINGTON -- The Nationals can breathe a sigh of relief regarding first baseman Nick Johnson, who went through a battery of tests, including an MRI, on his right hip on Wednesday.

According to Johnson, "a little" bursitis was found inside the hip, and he was given a cortisone shot to relieve the pain. He is not expected to participate in any baseball activities for the next few days.

Johnson has not played a Major League game this season because of a broken right leg, an injury sustained last September in a game at Shea Stadium against the Mets. For the last couple of months, however, he has been involved in baseball activities, but had a minor setback with the hip last week.

When he was fielding ground balls, for example, he couldn't go to his left very well. He also limped whenever he tried to stop at a base, and he had problems hitting certain pitches on the outside part of the plate.

"Hopefully, this little shot can calm whatever it is in there," Johnson said. "Everything looked good. There is no damage. Nothing out of the ordinary."

Johnson said there is still no timetable as to when he will play a Major League game.

"We'll see how the shot goes, and we'll see after that," he said.

[natsfan1a]

That's way better news than osteonecrosis as was speculated earlier.

[Evolution33]

What is the deal with delaying surgery? Is it that he feels surgery will essentially spell the end of his career? If so, then I can understand his desperation. He may want to make a token comeback to show a glimmer of hope in order to score one more contract. On the other hand, if that isn't the case, he has only delayed or pushed back precious recovery time for next season (if he's going to be useful to some other organization).

Patterson might delay himself out of a job. Right now would anyone be suprised if next years rotation doesn't include him?

As for Johnson I am interested in seeing Josh Whitesell and I expect at any moment Bill Rinehart to start flying through the system. He could end up being this years Zincola.

[PANatsFan]

Johnson diagnosed with burstitis
http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070711&content_id=2082572&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

WOOO HOOO!

Bursitis sounds a LOT better than osteonecrosis. One thing about this Caroll guy, he reads a lot, but he's not a doctor.

[saltydad]

Johnson diagnosed with burstitis
http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070711&content_id=2082572&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

Whew! I'm glad it's only "burstitus". Is that when your season bursts due to an injury?