Since we don't get the Cubs' first round pick...

[PC]

...I'm assuming that if WE signed a big dollar free agent, we would also keep our high first round pick?

So...

...what's keeping us from signing a big dollar free agant or two?  Please don't tell me it's the big dollars?  

[UMDNats]

We're "rebuilding" our farm system.

I wouldn't touch any FA fielders, but I think we should make a considerable effort for Schmidt or Zito, hopefully both.

[PC]

We're "rebuilding" our farm system.

I wouldn't touch any FA fielders, but I think we should make a considerable effort for Schmidt or Zito, hopefully both.

In other words, it's the big dollars.  

[Nat of the Living Dead]

We're "rebuilding" our farm system.

I wouldn't touch any FA fielders, but I think we should make a considerable effort for Schmidt or Zito, hopefully both.

In other words, it's the big dollars.  

No, its just logical sense.

A team attempting to do what we are trying to do can't spend $51 million on the rights to just talk to a Japanese player who is not MLB proven or sign a "Chicago-Loving LF big mouth" for $136 million dollars over the course of 8 years.  It just makes no sense in the scheme of rebuilding the farm system spending a lot of money on FAs, especially in the first 365 days of the plan.

When we are further down the road and the plan has gained steam, money will be spent.  We aren't trying to be a Yankees clone here.  Their plan of big spending on aging FA talent just doesn't cut it.

Prepare yourself for a rough 07'.  We are going to finish dead last in the NL East.  Everyone is projecting us to.  That doesn't mean we will of course, who knows, we might surprise people, but don't look for us even coming close to contending in 07'.  I'm not saying this to be mean or depressing, no, I'm actually excited about 07' even as projected cellar dwellers.  We have some young talent coming in, a new manager, a battleplan, and hopefully this excitement will inject itself into our remaining vets.

Take the kick in the balls now.  Let the trolls and critics eat us for lunch right now.  Because later, we are going to be having the last laugh and possibly a few WS rings.  :wink:

[UMDNats]

As a Caps fan, I try to be optimistic. In a year like this upcoming one, I try to look at the positives: brand new manager, Zimmerman, Casto, young guys coming in, etc etc. I'm excited. As long as this team seems to be having fun and working hard, I'll take it.

[PC]

No, its just logical sense.

A team attempting to do what we are trying to do can't spend $51 million on the rights to just talk to a Japanese player who is not MLB proven or sign a "Chicago-Loving LF big mouth" for $136 million dollars over the course of 8 years.  It just makes no sense in the scheme of rebuilding the farm system spending a lot of money on FAs, especially in the first 365 days of the plan.

But how does signing a big dollar free agent like the new LF for the Cubs hurt the process of "rebuilding" the farm system?  All it does is increase the amount of money spent, increase the money out of the Lerners' pockets.

I've yet to get a compelling argument for why we can't rebuild the farm system and have a "representative" payroll.  The cost of "rebuilding" the farm system isn't factored into anything other than the Lerners' balance sheet.  There's a luxury tax for the Nationals payroll but I'm not talking about spending that much on payroll to reach that point.

[UMDNats]

The reason you can't sign FAs to big contracts during a rebuilding time is because that player usually wants at least 3-5 years, which can really hinder you when that budding young player is ready to take over like you originally planned. Rebuilding years are designed to let young players play more often than not or build and grow as a team. When you continue to sign FAs, you still lose draft picks (if the FA is good) and if you have a revolving door of FAs your team looks cheap and the leadership in the locker room changes too much for the team to stay close. If you sign players for too long, they may underperform and they get disgruntled and hurt the locker room.


"Rebuilding the farm system" really means stockpiling young players to grow together and to grow as a organization over the course of 3-5 years. When you constantly cough up money for FAs, you really don't follow that plan because you're just throwing in star players who you hope perform well and don't disrupt the locker room chemistry.

For an analogy:
I'll go with the Steelers and compare them to the New York Knicks. Now, they're different sports, but the analogy can be made.

First. Steelers. They build through the draft and only sign FAs they feel are right for them and necessary. They are never in too much cap trouble and have their share of stars who grew together over the last few years and when you watch that team win you see how really close they are. They don't sign big-name FAs because they disrupt that chemistry. Also, they use those late-round draft picks to draft role players who also grow with the team and fight for that coveted roster spot that they want - it is usually a low-profile one, but they want it and make up that team.

Now, the Knicks. Look at them. Spend money on free agents left and right. They're terrible and going nowhere fast. They really don't have any plan and their team is made up of too many superstars who don't get it. They just don't. They are in serious cap trouble and have a bunch of players who are overpayed and just want to shoot it when they get it. They don't have those key role players who are team-first and are leaders.

[Dave B]

The reason you can't sign FAs to big contracts during a rebuilding time is because that player usually wants at least 3-5 years, which can really hinder you when that budding young player is ready to take over like you originally planned. Rebuilding years are designed to let young players play more often than not or build and grow as a team. When you continue to sign FAs, you still lose draft picks (if the FA is good) and if you have a revolving door of FAs your team looks cheap and the leadership in the locker room changes too much for the team to stay close. If you sign players for too long, they may underperform and they get disgruntled and hurt the locker room.

I think holds for position players not so much pitchers. "You can never have too much pitching"

[UMDNats]

That's why I said I hope they make a run at pitching. Still, I don't believe in throwing cash at a big-name FA pitcher because he's good. I'd rather build through our own drafting and scouting. Now, I think we need pitching, but right now, I think we should realistically go after tier 2-3 pitchers; Ted Lilly, Miguel Batista, etc etc. Guys who will help our rotation, but will take low-risk short contracts and hopefully will like DC enough to see where it is going and stick around for a while.

[PC]

The reason you can't sign FAs to big contracts during a rebuilding time is because that player usually wants at least 3-5 years, which can really hinder you when that budding young player is ready to take over like you originally planned.

You're assuming that your "prospects" are actually prospective, ie going to be good at some point in the future.  I would never assume that a 19 year old is going to be good in three years but I would assume that a 27 year old who's already good, is going to remain good over the next three years and if I have to eat a few (or twenty)  million dollars at the end of the 27 year old's contract because that he because, in six year, he becomes a 33 year old who's not so good anymore, I'm fine with that.  Of course, I'm not the one signing the checks...

And yes, three years ago, Ryan Zimmerman was a 19 year old who was going to be good in three years but he's the exception, not the rule.  Most prospects don't pan out.  Witness the number of players who've spent their entire careers in the minor leagues.

[UMDNats]

That's why you stockpile. Throw enough crap at the wall and some is bound to stick. You can't rely on a small group - you need tons and tons of prospects. When you get enough where you can replace injuries and have depth for years you can start being an active FA spender...of the RIGHT free agents. It's all about the RIGHT ones; you can't have knee-jerk reactions like the Redskins who sign Archuleta to a huge contract even though he is a carbon copy of Sean Taylor, only worse.
Now, a 27 year old who is already good is one thing that I think we can do - IF, and this is an IF, he is willing to only sign a 2-3 year deal TOPS. Over that and it's too long.

I think if the Nats do a good job scouting they can get enough players who are solid young players and you stiill have that core group of top-tier players - Zimmerman, Willems, Marrero, etc etc.

[Kenz aFan]

We're "rebuilding" our farm system.

I wouldn't touch any FA fielders, but I think we should make a considerable effort for Schmidt or Zito, hopefully both.

Never mind Schmidt, but Zito is only 28, and a lefty. So potentially, Zito could be with the team he signs, for 5 years and more, and at 33 in five years, he'll still have great value on whatever pitching staff he's on.

The Nats say they want a veteran or two on the staff, so what better way to kill two birds with one stone than to Sign Zito. After all, he's young enough he could be around another 10 years or so, and he's even at 28, he's more a veteran than most of the pitchers on the staff will be. Offer Zito the $75 for five years they were going to offer Soriano and see if he bites...

[ncg1983]

i cant believe how screwed we got on this deal.  we get a sandwich pick and the cubs 2nd rounder.  maybe something good can come out of this, but cheating us out of the 3rd overall pick is complete BS.

[natsfan7]

No, its just logical sense.

A team attempting to do what we are trying to do can't spend $51 million on the rights to just talk to a Japanese player who is not MLB proven or sign a "Chicago-Loving LF big mouth" for $136 million dollars over the course of 8 years.  It just makes no sense in the scheme of rebuilding the farm system spending a lot of money on FAs, especially in the first 365 days of the plan.

But how does signing a big dollar free agent like the new LF for the Cubs hurt the process of "rebuilding" the farm system?  All it does is increase the amount of money spent, increase the money out of the Lerners' pockets.

I've yet to get a compelling argument for why we can't rebuild the farm system and have a "representative" payroll.  The cost of "rebuilding" the farm system isn't factored into anything other than the Lerners' balance sheet.  There's a luxury tax for the Nationals payroll but I'm not talking about spending that much on payroll to reach that point.

I couldn't put my thought into words, but that sums it up preatty well......

[soxfan59]

No, its just logical sense.

A team attempting to do what we are trying to do can't spend $51 million on the rights to just talk to a Japanese player who is not MLB proven or sign a "Chicago-CUBS-Loving LF big mouth" for $136 million dollars over the course of 8 years.  It just makes no sense in the scheme of rebuilding the farm system spending a lot of money on FAs, especially in the first 365 days of the plan.

I adjusted that for you.  Chicago is not as monolithic folks might think, and there are two teams in town.  Soriano signed with the stupid *$$ team that will never win a pennant.  You can't mix those with "Cubby Chubbies" drinking that blue cool aid with White Sox Army.  The White Sox have proven they can field a team.  The Cubs are on the verge of celebrating a century without a world series title.  There is no sports team or organization professional or amatuer that I hate more, and is more inept, than the Chicago National League Ballclub.  And from reports coming out of Cubs media outlets, Soriano may be slotted for CF or RF, not LF, meaning the Cubs may become the first team in MLB history to field a team of outfielders who may not record a put out all season.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

No, its just logical sense.

A team attempting to do what we are trying to do can't spend $51 million on the rights to just talk to a Japanese player who is not MLB proven or sign a "Chicago-CUBS-Loving LF big mouth" for $136 million dollars over the course of 8 years.  It just makes no sense in the scheme of rebuilding the farm system spending a lot of money on FAs, especially in the first 365 days of the plan.

I adjusted that for you.  Chicago is not as monolithic folks might think, and there are two teams in town.  Soriano signed with the stupid *$$ team that will never win a pennant.  You can't mix those with "Cubby Chubbies" drinking that blue cool aid with White Sox Army.  The White Sox have proven they can field a team.  The Cubs are on the verge of celebrating a century without a world series title.  There is no sports team or organization professional or amatuer that I hate more, and is more inept, than the Chicago National League Ballclub.  And from reports coming out of Cubs media outlets, Soriano may be slotted for CF or RF, not LF, meaning the Cubs may become the first team in MLB history to field a team of outfielders who may not record a put out all season.

It didn't need adjusting.  He said he loves Chicago.  Not Chicago Cubs, White Sox, Sears Tower, or the Breakfast Club.  Chicago.

[Senators2005]

ARGHH  - those damn Cub fans coming to RFK were bad enough WITHOUT this crap...now....

Now that I give it some thought I don't think I will be going to RFK when the Cubs are in town...I fear I might commit some kind of crime.  

[The Chief]

ARGHH  - those damn Cub fans coming to RFK were bad enough WITHOUT this crap...now....

Now that I give it some thought I don't think I will be going to RFK when the Cubs are in town...I fear I might commit some kind of crime.  

Are you kidding?  All this drama might actually make Cubs games interesting for a change!

It would be even sweeter if we got to see big nasty strike out the $136m dollar man  

[Senators2005]

Are you kidding?  All this drama might actually make Cubs games interesting for a change!

It would be even sweeter if we got to see big nasty strike out the $136m dollar man  

Chief...let's take an honest look here: Alfonso Soriano cracked over 40 Home Runs last year - a whole bunch of those were at good 'ol RFK Stadium.  Now do you really want to be sitting next to some obnoxious Cubbie fan when Fonzie tatoos one over left field?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

Well let me re-phrase that - I wouldn't want to be the Cubbie fan sitting next to ME.  

[The Chief]

Are you kidding?  All this drama might actually make Cubs games interesting for a change!

It would be even sweeter if we got to see big nasty strike out the $136m dollar man  

Chief...let's take an honest look here: Alfonso Soriano cracked over 40 Home Runs last year - a whole bunch of those were at good 'ol RFK Stadium.  Now do you really want to be sitting next to some obnoxious Cubbie fan when Fonzie tatoos one over left field?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

Well let me re-phrase that - I wouldn't want to be the Cubbie fan sitting next to ME.  

The odds are far greater that he won't hit anything out.  And even if he does, it's not like that wins them an instant championship.  I will take being Soriano-less over being a Cubs fan any day of the week

[tomterp]

Are you kidding?  All this drama might actually make Cubs games interesting for a change!

It would be even sweeter if we got to see big nasty strike out the $136m dollar man  

Chief...let's take an honest look here: Alfonso Soriano cracked over 40 Home Runs last year - a whole bunch of those were at good 'ol RFK Stadium.  Now do you really want to be sitting next to some obnoxious Cubbie fan when Fonzie tatoos one over left field?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

Well let me re-phrase that - I wouldn't want to be the Cubbie fan sitting next to ME.  

Do you really think he could hit O'Connor's best fastball?


Uh, ok, I see your point.

As for sitting next to Senators2005, I am one of the few (if not ONLY) ones on this board with the experience of doing so.  And I can agree with the quote above, I wouldn't want to be the Cubbie fan next to him