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Offline JMW IV

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PAC!
« Topic Start: August 23, 2010, 08:24:04 AM »
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5484947

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Pirates made $29.4M in 2007 and 2008
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Associated Press
PITTSBURGH -- Don't feel too sorry for the cellar-dwelling Pittsburgh Pirates. Losing has been profitable.

The Pirates made nearly $29.4 million in 2007 and 2008, according to team financial documents, years that were part of a streak of futility that has now reached 18 straight losing seasons. The team's ownership also paid its partners $20.4 million in 2008.

The documents offer a rare peek inside a team that made money by getting slightly less than half its income (about $70 million) from MLB sources -- including revenue sharing, network TV, major league merchandise sales and MLB's website. The team also held down costs, keeping player salaries near the bottom of the National League, shedding pricier talent and hoping that untested prospects would blossom.

The club's earnings were included in nearly 40 pages of statements that the Pirates submitted to Major League Baseball and were recently obtained by The Associated Press. Team officials briefed local reporters on portions of the material Sunday. The AP wasn't invited to the session, which owner Bob Nutting said was "aimed at the recent leak."

"The numbers indicate why people are suspecting they're taking money from baseball and keeping it -- they don't spend it on the players," said David Berri, president of the North American Association of Sports Economists and the author of two books detailing the relationship between finances and winning. "Teams have a choice. They can seek to maximize winning, what the Yankees do, or you can be the Pirates and make as much money as you can in your market. The Pirates aren't trying to win."

Club executives vehemently disagreed with that assessment. Yet the numbers show Pittsburgh hasn't spent as much as its opponents -- and hasn't won.

By 2010, the Pirates had baseball's lowest opening-day payroll -- $34.9 million or just $2 million more than in 1992, the club's last winning season. The Pirates run of consecutive losing seasons is now the worst in the history of major American pro sports teams. They lost their 83rd game of the year Saturday to the Mets.

Pirate officials say they are trying to field a competitive team, and that there is nothing nefarious in the team's financial dealings. MLB backs them up, saying Pittsburgh has complied with the rules for revenue sharing, which are supposed to help less well off clubs compete with likes of the New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox.

Still, Pittsburgh fans have long complained that the club's various owners have been more interested in profits than performance, and top sports economists who reviewed highlights of the team's statements wondered if it now makes more money losing than it could by winning.

"If they won and were forced to increase their payroll from $34 million to $75 million or $80 million ... how profitable would they be?" Berri said. "There's a ceiling in terms of gate revenues."

Economist Roger Noll, a Stanford University economist, said: "Probably the Pirates would be less profitable if they tried to improve the team substantially."

Pirates president Frank Coonelly said the team spends its revenue-sharing money in several ways designed to create a winner: scouting; amateur draft choices; a new Dominican Republic academy that cost more than $5 million; player development; and, an expensive new computer system used in player evaluation.

According to the documents, the Pirates spent $23.2 million in 2008 and $21.2 million in 2007 for player development, in line with other clubs.

The Pirates' strategy of building with prospects rather than with proven players was illustrated this month when they paid nearly $12 million for amateur draft picks, putting them at or near the top of baseball, and raising their draft expenditures to $31 million for the last three years.

They also spent another $2.6 million for 16-year-old Mexican pitching prospect Luis Heredia, the highest price they've paid for an international prospect. General manager Neal Huntington, who was hired three years ago, said the team has a plan for the future and is in the middle of executing it.

Coonnelly said in an interview with the AP last week that Pittsburgh, one of baseball's smaller markets, still will need help after it climbs in the standings.

"Even when we're winning, we will be a revenue-sharing recipient ... and in much better position to generate revenue and, depending on how we control other expenses, to generate additional income," he said. "But you can win without an $80 million payroll. We're seeing it this year."

Indeed, San Diego had the second-lowest opening day payroll and the Padres are leading the NL West. Tampa Bay went to the World Series in 2008 with a relatively low budget.

Revenue-sharing funds come from each team's local revenues -- every team is charged 34 percent -- and are redistributed among the lower-revenue teams. The only stipulation is that the money should be spent on making the team competitive. There is no set amount for payroll.

"The Pirates have fully complied with the Basic Agreement requirements for the use of revenue-sharing proceeds," Rob Manfred, MLB's executive vice president for labor relations, told the AP in an e-mail. The Basic Agreement is the labor contract between the MLB's 30 clubs and the players union.

The Pirates issued a statement Sunday, saying it was wrong for the financial statements to have been released to the AP.

"Someone with access to the Club's financial statements has breached his/her fiduciary obligation to the Club by providing a copy of the Club's audited financial statements for the 2007 and 2008 seasons to the Associated Press," the statement read. "The Club is a private company that has no obligation to publicly report its financial results and, like most private companies, has consistently declined to do so."

The statement also said "the revenues generated by the club are being reinvested back into the club in both long-term and short-term investments needed to completely overhaul and rebuild this baseball team."

"The Club has paid no dividends to its partners. Moreover, while it is quite common for a Chairman of the Board of Directors of a partnership to draw a salary, (owner since 2007) Bob Nutting has never received any salary."

Apart from the financial statements, the AP obtained a check stub of a payment made from a Pirates account to settle a bill with Seven Springs ski resort, which is owned by the Nutting family. The check bore a Pirates logo, which at first look suggests a financial transaction between the two operations, but the team says it came from a since-closed joint advertising account.

"I can tell you for certain there has not been a dime that has left the Pirates organization to fund any other business of any of the partners of the Pirates," Coonelly said.

The $20.4 million payment to partners two years ago wasn't for dividends, Coonelly said, but to cover the owners' taxes on the Pirates' profits and to pay a partner who loaned the team money seven years ago when the Pirates' credit was so bad it couldn't obtain bank financing. While such tax payments are common in a partnership, they're unavailable to the common investor.

Coonelly, previously an attorney for MLB, defended the Pirates' right to make a profit, but said he would not stay with the team if he suspected any Pirates funds were being channeled to ownership.

"I would not have left the commissioner's office if I wasn't convinced that Bob Nutting was committed to putting a winning product on the field," he said. "I would not have left the commissioner's office and I wouldn't remain at the Pirates if the Pirates were simply generating resources to fund other businesses."

Still, fans and critics ask how a team that won five World Series from 1909-1979 and nine division titles from 1969-92 can be so bad.

"I think it's very important for smaller markets teams to be careful about spending payroll, but there's a reason to be skeptical and cynical about what's going on (in Pittsburgh)," Andrew Zimbalist, a Smith College economist, said.

To cut payroll, the Pirates have shed former All-Stars Jason Bay, Freddy Sanchez, Nate McLouth and Jack Wilson in trades, along with nearly every other player who was arbitration eligible -- or close to it -- or free agency: Tom Gorzelanny, Ian Snell, John Grabow, Xavier Nady, Adam LaRoche, Damaso Marte, Nyjer Morgan, Ronny Paulino and Sean Burnett.

They also dealt slugger Jose Bautista to Toronto for a backup catcher who has since left their system, and cut NL All-Star closer Matt Capps without getting anything in return because he sought a $500,000 raise.

The team says it needs money to have the flexibility to make better investments going forward.

So while fans wait for $6 million draft pick Jameson Taillon and $2 million draft pick Stetson Allie to develop -- both right-handers throw nearly 100 mph -- they're not exactly flocking to PNC Park.

The gem of a stadium opened in 2001 at a cost of $262 million, with the Pirates covering $44 million, after the team long lobbied for a baseball-only venue that would maximize revenues. Attendance peaked during the inagura1 season at 2.4 million, but declined to a low of about 1.6 million last year. During the two years covered by the documents, gate receipts (more than $66 million) barely were enough to cover the expenses for ballpark and game operations, public relations, marketing and administration costs, much less payroll.

Still, the club is profitable, taking in $15,008,032 in 2007 and $14,408,249 in 2008. Coonelly said Sunday the Pirates made $5.4 million in 2009.


Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press

wonder if the AP can get a hold of the Lerner's books....

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #1: August 23, 2010, 08:36:18 AM »
Now every time Boras says, "there are some teams outthere who refuse to put their profits back into their payroll." we'll know that one of those teams is the Pirates.

I loved the Pirates when I was growing up.  It's so sad to see this happen to this franchise.  I hope to God they force the sale of this team and allow Mark Cuban to buy them.

Offline CJames0569

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #2: August 23, 2010, 08:38:56 AM »
I hope to God they force the sale of this team and allow Mark Cuban to buy them.

This would be one of the best things to happen to the franchise but unfortunately the other owners will most likely never let it happen.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #3: August 23, 2010, 08:45:49 AM »
I think the pirates are in a pretty similiar position to us going into this season. They haven't been as bad as us to get the number 1 picks, but they have signed some pretty overslot picks. The only real difference is an aversion to terrible overpriced vetrans and stop gaps (Marquis/Kennedy/Pudge). Adam Dunn is our only good free agent, if we don't keep him, going into next season, are we really in that much of a better position?  I don't blame them for getting rid of vetrans who would never be part of a competitive team, and it's not like the cuppard is totally bare; they do have some very good prospects starting to contribute

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #4: August 23, 2010, 08:51:12 AM »
I think the pirates are in a pretty similiar position to us going into this season. They haven't been as bad as us to get the number 1 picks, but they have signed some pretty overslot picks. The only real difference is an aversion to terrible overpriced vetrans and stop gaps (Marquis/Kennedy/Pudge). Adam Dunn is our only good free agent, if we don't keep him, going into next season, are we really in that much of a better position?  I don't blame them for getting rid of vetrans who would never be part of a competitive team, and it's not like the cuppard is totally bare; they do have some very good prospects starting to contribute

But I think the difference is they have 18 years of futility now and all along the way they have watched many of those number 1 picks move onto other teams.  We have a ways to go to be compared to the Pirates.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #5: August 23, 2010, 09:03:41 AM »
1981 was the last time this franchise made the playoffs. If you want to divorce the city from the franchise, the senators sucked too before leaving. At least the pirates have history to fall back on. If you want to talk about ownership, Nutting has only had the team since 2007

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #6: August 23, 2010, 09:32:02 AM »
Oh yeah let's follow the pirates spending ways. :?

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #7: August 23, 2010, 09:33:04 AM »
1981 was the last time this franchise made the playoffs. If you want to divorce the city from the franchise, the senators sucked too before leaving. At least the pirates have history to fall back on. If you want to talk about ownership, Nutting has only had the team since 2007
1991, perhaps?  Sid Bream.  Barry Bonds.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #8: August 23, 2010, 09:37:16 AM »
1991, perhaps?  Sid Bream.  Barry Bonds.

I was referring to the Nationals

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #9: August 23, 2010, 09:52:50 AM »
I was referring to the Nationals
Oops... :-[

Posting before fully awake does wonders for my reading comprehension...

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #10: August 23, 2010, 09:57:44 AM »
Oh yeah let's follow the pirates spending ways. :?

I don't think that's what people are trying to say....

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #11: August 23, 2010, 10:26:40 AM »
Like the Marlins, the Pirates are another example of what is wrong with MLB's revenue sharing.  But, one thing I didn't see in the article and which has definitely played into the profits, recent sale, and the even more recent firesale is that MLB permits teams to take the cost of the stadium and expense it over 8 years, with year 8 only having a marginal benefit to net local revenues.  With all that cost being written off, it shrinks net local revenues, which is a boost to revenue sharing receipts.  The team was sold a couple years ago just before year eight, and right after year 8 had a firesale to cut payroll and sent every player with any potential packing.

Revenue sharing is going through a massive and unintended flux, with the Yankees and Mets being able to write off their stadium costs right now.  The Yankees and Mets have historically been #1 and #3 contributors to the revenue sharing pool, accounting for nearly 41% of all revenue sharing contributions.  Even though net local revenues for the Marlins had declined again, their revenue sharing is expected to be cut by 40% - 60% (revenue sharing from last year is just now being distributed).  There are some who speculate that with the stadium write-offs that the Yankees could become revenue sharing recipients this year.  Base on published reports of the cost, the Yankee are allowed to write off $180 million of the stadium costs last year, which cuts their revenue sharing contribution by $55.8 milion this year, and each of the next two years, with the write-offs then dropping to $120 million before down to $60 million in the 8th year after opening.  Based upon 2008 numbers, the $180 million would make the Yankees borderline revenue sharing recipients, though the increase in ticket revenue could change that.  Further, the first year in a new stadium, the team additionally receives a discount from net local revenues of 10% of the local GROSS revenues.  If the Yankees ticket sales did not grow by 10% from 2008 to 2009, they will likely be net recipients.

The main point is that revenue sharing collected - every team pays in 31% of its net local revenues, with the bottom feeders (usually the bottom 19 teams) getting back more than they pay in - is going to be down substantially for the next few years as the total net local revenues are down due to Selig's unusual accounting standards, which just happened to be established coinciding with the original planned opening of Miller Park.  Selig waited & took advantage of writing off 60% of the total stadium costs over its first four years after opening before selling the Brewers.

The CBA expires after next year, and revenue sharing is bound to be a big issue.  I anticipate more fighting among the owners themselves than between the owners and the unions.  With MLBs knack for timing (strike the year after Marlins came into existence), there is bound to be a major problem before the opening of the Marlins new stadium in 2012.  If Loria doesn't get his stadium breaks (any stadium not opening in 2011 does not get the bennies in the current CBA even if the agreement was in place prior to the expiration of the CBA), the Marlins will open up a new stadium with yet another firesale.  

Offline JMW IV

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #12: August 23, 2010, 10:47:04 AM »
Oh yeah let's follow the pirates spending ways. :?

go sit in the corner. nobody even suggested such a thing.

god, you are obsessed.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #13: August 23, 2010, 11:24:58 AM »

Revenue sharing is going through a massive and unintended flux, with the Yankees and Mets being able to write off their stadium costs right now.  The Yankees and Mets have historically been #1 and #3 contributors to the revenue sharing pool, accounting for nearly 41% of all revenue sharing contributions.  Even though net local revenues for the Marlins had declined again, their revenue sharing is expected to be cut by 40% - 60% (revenue sharing from last year is just now being distributed).  There are some who speculate that with the stadium write-offs that the Yankees could become revenue sharing recipients this year.  Base on published reports of the cost, the Yankee are allowed to write off $180 million of the stadium costs last year, which cuts their revenue sharing contribution by $55.8 milion this year, and each of the next two years, with the write-offs then dropping to $120 million before down to $60 million in the 8th year after opening.  Based upon 2008 numbers, the $180 million would make the Yankees borderline revenue sharing recipients, though the increase in ticket revenue could change that.   

I actually think there is a perverse humor in the Yankees recieving revenue sharing money.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #14: August 23, 2010, 11:33:28 AM »
go sit in the corner. nobody even suggested such a thing.

god, you are obsessed.

I'll stand, thank you.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #15: August 23, 2010, 11:39:59 AM »
I actually think there is a perverse humor in the Yankees recieving revenue sharing money.

It is borderline comical but it does show how the revenue sharing system needs some tweaking.  I think it could work but since more and more people are watching from home it should be weighted more towards television revenues.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #16: August 23, 2010, 11:41:08 AM »
go sit in the corner. nobody even suggested such a thing.

god, you are obsessed.

In his defense (and I can't believe I am defending him), the title is PAC! - even it it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

Offline blue911

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #17: August 23, 2010, 11:53:50 AM »
It is borderline comical but it does show how the revenue sharing system needs some tweaking.  I think it could work but since more and more people are watching from home it should be weighted more towards television revenues.

 The Yankees are owned by Yankee Global Enterprises LLC (who just happen to own the YES Network and Yankee Stadium). They don't have to open their books to anybody. As a matter of fact they can alter the TV deal at any time to show how the Yankees spend every penny they make, all while YGE is swimming in cash. This is how Steinbrenner has fooled people into thinking the Yankees are being held as a public trust.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #18: August 23, 2010, 11:57:50 AM »
The Yankees are owned by Yankee Global Enterprises LLC (who just happen to own the YES Network and Yankee Stadium). They don't have to open their books to anybody. As a matter of fact they can alter the TV deal at any time to show how the Yankees spend every penny they make, all while YGE is swimming in cash. This is how Steinbrenner has fooled people into thinking the Yankees are being held as a public trust.

In thier defense, if they did spend every penny they took in, a billion dollar payroll may be bad for small markets.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #19: August 23, 2010, 12:03:57 PM »
The only real difference is an aversion to terrible overpriced vetrans and stop gaps (Marquis/Kennedy/Pudge). Adam Dunn is our only good free agent . . .
In fairness, we also traded for arbitration eligible players rather than dump them - Willingham, Olsen, Burnett, and we signed Capps (no longer with the team).  I think that by targeting some of these arb eligibles but not FAs, the Nats are being quite smart in getting less than full  priced players who can help the team over  a few years while the system develops prospects.  This is not what the Marlins and the Pirates do, but we operate at a slightly higher pay level than they do.

Offline Vega

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #20: August 23, 2010, 12:04:23 PM »
Other than Burnett and LaRoche, I wouldn't want any of those players that the Pirates got rid of now. If they had given them all big money extensions, they would be stuck with horrid contracts for guys like Bay, Ramirez, Nady, Wilson, and McLouth. Capps was coming off a bad year, so I don't blame them for getting rid of him, and Octavio Dotel, the guy they replaced Capps with, was flipped for James McDonald, who looks like he could be a major cog of their rotation for years to come, and Andrew Lambo, who has been tearing it up in AA since getting dealt. Bautista is one of the biggest surprises in recent baseball history, so you can't really get too upset with them for trading him.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #21: August 23, 2010, 12:11:01 PM »
not mentioned in the article but perhaps consistent with NatsAddict's post was that they HAD signed Bay and Wilson to decent money contracts prior to trading them.  It may have been the prior ownership dressing the team up for sale or it may have been the ability to write off stadium contracts, but one reason both Boston and TB were after Bay in 2008 was that he was under team control the following year for $7.5 MM or so. For Boston, the compensation pick for Bay was gravy.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #22: August 23, 2010, 12:13:47 PM »
Part 2 is out

http://deadspin.com/5619201/seattle-mariners-financial-documents/gallery/

deadspin is posting the Mariners financials for 2008 and 2007

I wonder if this will just be a slow leak of every team's documents?

edit: being an idiot and relying on espn, I didn't realize deadspin had already posted a bunch of other team's statements

Offline mitlen

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #23: August 23, 2010, 12:13:52 PM »
Now every time Boras says, "there are some teams outthere who refuse to put their profits back into their payroll." we'll know that one of those teams is the Pirates.

I loved the Pirates when I was growing up.  It's so sad to see this happen to this franchise.  I hope to God they force the sale of this team and allow Mark Cuban to buy them.

Me too on the Pirates thing growing up.   I lost the glow when Sid Bream crossed homeplate ... Bonds and Bonilla left and they haven't won since.    Cuban's a "yinzer" and I think he'd turn the franchise around.     Honestly though, I remember some woeful days before and after the '60 series.   Then came the 70's ... great time to be a Pirates fan (and Steelers).   My buddy and I still talk Bucs (he's in CO) but my heart is with the Nats.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: PAC!
« Reply #24: August 23, 2010, 12:38:46 PM »
Such a shame that the Pirates have such terrible owners because the ballpark really is the best in the game.