Should VanAllen and Zimmermann Be Given Fast Track To Majors?

[Senators2005]

Marrero is a long, long, long ways away from being ML-ready. Zimmermann and VanAllen are close to ready NOW whether some believe it or not. These guys have dominated in High-A ball and Double-A ball. I suspect they'll be in AAA soon or maybe even the Majors by the end of the year. Both Zmann (Turns 22 on Friday) and VanAllen (23) were drafted out of college so naturally they are more advanced than Marrero who is 19 and was drafted out of High School.

I disagree with your assessment to rush Jordan Zimmerman and VanAllen Sportsfan.  No need to go gah-gah over their numbers yet...we've been here before with other prospects that did great in the minors and were rushed at warp speed to RFK.  The only one that worked out was Ryan Zimmerman.

[sportsfan882]

I disagree with your assessments of Jordan Zimmerman and VanAllen sportsfan...but that's a different thread.  No need to go gah-gah over their numbers yet...we've been here before with other prospects that did great in the minors and were rushed at warp speed to RFK.

They are both on the same path Lannan was on last year.  I believe these guys have greater potential than him too despite how crazy that might sound.  Both of these guys' numbers are actually better than Lannan's were last year when he tore through our system.

[Senators2005]

They are both on the same path Lannan was on last year.  I believe these guys have greater potential than him too despite how crazy that might sound.  Both of these guys' numbers are actually better than Lannan's were last year when he tore through our system.

Ok I'm going to have to split this topic after this...

Let me be brutally honest here: the only reason John Lannan is in the majors is because our rotation is a complete disaster full of nobodies.  I'm amazed they have done as well as they have and it's too bad our team hasn't gained from it.  Comparing others to John Lannan is not setting the bar very high.

[sportsfan882]

Ok I'm going to have to split this topic after this...

Let me be brutally honest here: the only reason John Lannan is in the majors is because our rotation is a complete disaster full of nobodies.  I'm amazed they have done as well as they have and it's too bad our team hasn't gained from it.  Comparing others to John Lannan is not setting the bar very high.

What? That's not true. Our rotation is rock solid. It is just as good as anyone else's in our division.  Lannan has the potential to be a ML #2 starter for years and years to come. You are selling Lannan and the others very short I'm afraid.

[Senators2005]

What? That's not true. Our rotation is rock solid. It is just as good as anyone else's in our division.  Lannan has the potential to be a ML #2 starter for years and years to come. You are selling Lannan and the others very short I'm afraid.

Our rotation (what exactly IS our rotation anyway?) has gotten very lucky...you'll see.  I'll remind you when you start ranting about it in the game threads.  These guys are in over their heads and it's only a matter of time that the Baseball Gods will render their wrath. 

[ronnynat]

Ok I'm going to have to split this topic after this...

Let me be brutally honest here: the only reason John Lannan is in the majors is because our rotation is a complete disaster full of nobodies.  I'm amazed they have done as well as they have and it's too bad our team hasn't gained from it.  Comparing others to John Lannan is not setting the bar very high.

Lannan would be the #2 starter on the Yankees right now.

Really though, after the year he had last season in the minors (all the way up through AAA remember), almost any team would have given him a shot. And if he pitched like he has been here, he would have stayed in almost any rotation.

If Zimmermann or VanAllen dominates at every level in the minors, they'd deserve the same shot. But that's only if there's an open spot.

[sportsfan882]

Our rotation (what exactly IS our rotation anyway?) has gotten very lucky...you'll see.  I'll remind you when you start ranting about it in the game threads.  These guys are in over their heads and it's only a matter of time that the Baseball Gods will render their wrath.

The only guy who I think is pitching over their heads is Perez. I agree, he's been very lucky and is really garbage. The other 4 guys are legit though.

[Senators2005]

The only guy who I think is pitching over their heads is Perez. I agree, he's been very lucky and is really garbage. The other 4 guys are legit.

Believe me when I tell you Matt Chico, John Lannan, Odalis Parez, Jason Bergmann and Shawn Hill's baseball cards aren't going to be selling like hotcakes anytime soon.

[sportsfan882]

Believe me when I tell you Matt Chico, John Lannan, Odalis Parez, Jason Bergmann and Shawn Hill's baseball cards aren't going to be selling like hotcakes anytime soon.

Chico has been bad but he's a little better than he has been so far this season. Lannan, Bergmann, Hill, and Redding are solid as it gets.

[Senators2005]

The only guy who I think is pitching over their heads is Perez. I agree, he's been very lucky and is really garbage. The other 4 guys are legit though.

I think you've been watching too much Nationals baseball...you might have forgotten what a real pitching staff looks like.   

[Senators2005]

Chico has been bad but he's a little better than he has been so far this season. Lannan, Bergmann, Hill, and Redding are solid as it gets.

Believe me when I tell you: The only one that's worth a contract is Hill...and he's too injury-prone.

[sportsfan882]

I think you've been watching too much Nationals baseball...you might have forgotten what a real pitching staff looks like.   

Our rotation is just as good as anybody's in the NL East. Our offense is AA-caliber but I see no problems whatsoever with our rotation. And it is only going to get better in the coming years as Balester, VanAllen, and Zmann move up through the system.

[ronnynat]

The only guy who I think is pitching over their heads is Perez. I agree, he's been very lucky and is really garbage. The other 4 guys are legit though.

Perez has pitched well enough to win in 8 out of 10 outings, while Bergmann is 2 out of 5. How is Perez a fluke and Bergmann's legit?

[Senators2005]

Our rotation is just as good as anybody's in the NL East.

That's just because of the sad state of the NL East...not because we have a championship rotation dude... 

For Chrissakes...FLORIDA is in the #1 spot, doesn't that tell you anything?   

[sportsfan882]

Perez has pitched well to win in 8 out of 10 outings, while Bergmann is 2 out of 5. How is Perez a fluke and Bergmann's legit?

Perez is crap and you know it. Bergmann has thrown 14 consecutive scoreless innings against the Phils and Mets since being recalled.  I certainly trust him a lot more than Perez. 

[Skinz72]

Didn't John spend some time with Columbus last year, too?  VanAllen I think is close to ready.  I think JZ may need some more time this year with Harrisburg and Columbus.  Thing is, if they aren't absolutely ready, and get crushed at their first ML appearance, you could destroy what confidence they had and that can take time to rebuild.  That's for the ML coaches to evaluate and determine - how ready any given player is mentally.  I'm sure the minor league coaches and managers have a hand in their development and promotions as well.  They are interviewed about how quickly pitcher X handles a loss or a bad inning.  Right now Brownlie in Columbus was on the fast track, that is until his last appearance - he got SLAAAAMMMMMED!!!!  Got rocked for 5 runs /4 hits in one inning.  His ERA for that game was 45.00.  Future scouts will look to his next game to see how he bounces back.  So, every player is different and has a different path to the Bigs.  If you see good numbers but no promotion to the Bigs, you can bet that player has been eveluated as not-ready emotionally/mentally.  

Remember, "90% of the game is mental - the other half is physical."  

[sportsfan882]

I agree that VanAllen is more ready than Zimmermann but both could be a year or less away from being ML-ready.

[ronnynat]

Perez is crap and you know it. Bergmann has thrown 14 consecutive scoreless innings against the Phils and Mets since being recalled.  I certainly trust him a lot more than Perez. 

I like Bergmann, but you can't just go by two outings and declare the guy legit just like you can't declare a pitcher a fluke after 2 bad outings. The most important thing right now is that Perez has been here the whole time and he's given us a chance to win 8 out of his 10 times out. That's HUGE.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Our rotation (what exactly IS our rotation anyway?) has gotten very lucky...you'll see.  I'll remind you when you start ranting about it in the game threads.  These guys are in over their heads and it's only a matter of time that the Baseball Gods will render their wrath. 

I completely agree Sens. These guys have been pitching above and beyond but by sheer luck and overachieving. I expect that they will come back down to earth when the season gets older due to injury, stamina, and just the luck running out.

We've been highly lucky these journeymen and youngsters have been doing so well and it's easy to put on the rose colored glasses and say this is the real deal. Bullcrap. Any reasonable baseball fan wouldn't take this rotation into playoff battle. It's easy to praise them when they are winning and keeping us in games but just wait until the week where Perez blows it, Bergmann throws his beachballs, Shawn Hill gets put on the DL, the other team gets to Tim Redding and he can't go past five innings, and Lannan/Chico show their youth and get bombed all in the same week, just wait for it.

I wonder what the reaction is going to be then.

[ronnynat]

I completely agree Sens. These guys have been pitching above and beyond but by sheer luck and overachieving. I expect that they will come back down to earth when the season gets older due to injury, stamina, and just the luck running out.

We've been highly lucky these journeymen and youngsters have been doing so well and it's easy to put on the rose colored glasses and say this is the real deal. Bullcrap. Any reasonable baseball fan wouldn't take this rotation into playoff battle. It's easy to praise them when they are winning and keeping us in games but just wait until the week where Perez blows it, Bergmann throws his beachballs, Shawn Hill gets put on the DL, the other team gets to Tim Redding and he can't go past five innings, and Lannan/Chico show their youth and get bombed all in the same week, just wait for it.

I wonder what the reaction is going to be then.

Well, if it only happened during one week....

[Burgess]

I think, the answer should be yes but only for Van Allen for the moment. Zimmermann isn't that much ready, even he is on the good track right now. Van Allen is a bit older and he is also pretty dominating with Harrisburg now, if he keeps it up, he should be with Columbus or in Washington in less then a month or two.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Well, if it only happened during one week....

I guarantee that if it happened, this board wouldn't be laughing.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Believe me when I tell you: The only one that's worth a contract is Hill...and he's too injury-prone.

Have you even watched Lannan and Redding pitch?  They've done very well, and their peripherals support that.

I do agree, though, that this rotation is not that great, and really, we're talking about the 2007 rotation here.  Lannan was fortunate enough to make the rotation last year because we were trotting out scrubs like Jerome Williams, Mike Bacsik, and Jason Simontacchi.  If this team had a real ML rotation last year, Lannan wouldn't have sniffed the majors.

And while the rotation is substantially better, this team still doesn't have a fifth starter.  Perez is definitely playing over his head, but he's a decent fourth starter.  Hill can't be relied upon to be healthy, and even if he is, we don't know yet if Bergmann belongs in the rotation.

[Senators2005]

Have you even watched Lannan and Redding pitch?

No, I've taken this season off.   

Look the point is that we have an entire pitching staff of #5 starters.  Shawn Hill when healthy is a #2 or #3 level guy.  You can't have an entire rotation of mediocre no-names and expect to get anywhere.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Lannan and Redding are not #5 starters by any stretch - maybe in name recognition alone.  Most teams would kill to have their #3 starters have the type of seasons that they're having.