Nationals @ Diamondbacks, Game 2

[Air Zimmerman]

Lucky they were solo shots? What? Bergmann did a great job of keeping the D'Backs off the bases. He walked NONE. Bergmann could have given up 0 runs in 9 innings tonight and we still would have lost.

Jesus, Bergmann has been phenomenal since coming back.  He's given up zero runs 3 TIMES and in the other start he pitched a Complete Game.

whatever. he gave up four homers. that's all i am saying, and it should be somewhat alarming that he could be returning to his "beach ball" ways.

the first homer was CRUSHED, then he gave up BACK TO BACK JACKS proving that he lacks the ability to bounce back, and then he gave up another homer to the deepest part of the ball park.

[The Chief]

No one's denying that 4 homers is bad, but as Ronny pointed out, those 4 homers may be the only 4 bad pitches he had all game.

And you're right, the next start is one to watch...  which was exactly what I said already

[kimnat]

Maybe so, but he did bounce back and closed out EACH inning.  He didn't crumble.

[NatsAddict]

i don't think berg really deserves any praise. fact is, he gave up FOUR homers. he's lucky they were solo shots or else he could've easily given up 10 runs.

Lucky?  He allows 7 baserunners in 8 innings.  Odds are that any HR would be a solo shot.  He pitched well enough for any remotely decent team to have won. 

When every pitcher is essentially faced with the pressure of every inning being a bottom inning of an extra inning game, it's tough.  The starters are all being forced to dance on eggshells 6+ innings a game.   But that's the way it is with the absurdity of Lenny Harris hanging around.  If/when Harris goes, it will have some residual benefit on the pitching.

[sportsfan882]

This is the same reaction and bit of excuses people gave the last time Bergmann rose and then crashed. I find it hilarious because it's true what they say: History truly does repeat itself.

Come on now, we were facing a formidable pitcher in Webb. Even if our offense was awake, were you really expecting to get four or five runs off him that easily? I don't believe so, it would of been a close game and if that was the case, the attitude of everyone around here would be extremely different if Bergmann gave up four jacks.

No matter how much you try to cut the mustard: four home runs in one game is anything but a positive or efficiency. Now the question is: has Bergmann been shaken or can he rebound? His next start will be one to watch.

And don't get on my case. I didn't even want to post the Beachball pic. People asked me. I think I've been more than fair.

If you're not happy with him giving up only 4 runs given up in 27.2 innings since being re-called I don't know what will make you happy.  If he keeps up this level of performance he is easily the most dominant pitcher on the staff.

[ronnynat]

No matter how much you try to cut the mustard: four home runs in one game is anything but a positive or efficiency. Now the question is: has Bergmann been shaken or can he rebound? His next start will be one to watch.

A "rebound" would only mean that he doesn't throw 4 or 5 mistake pitches that hitters happen to hit for homers. I don't see that as being too tough of a mission. He was solid outside of those few pitches. Giving up 4 runs is giving your team a chance to win no matter what team you pitch for. He did his job tonight. You can't expect a pitcher to give up 3 or less every time out. If you do, your hopes are too high.

[spidernat]

Nationals.com ladies night?  Does that mean you can't score and try to hit the first thing that comes at you?

This one has to go in the classic thread before it gets locked.

[sportsfan882]

No one's denying that 4 homers is bad, but as Ronny pointed out, those 4 homers may be the only 4 bad pitches he had all game.

And you're right, the next start is one to watch...  which was exactly what I said already

Definitely. He gets the Giants at home who have an offense almost as bad as ours'. I think he'll be fine.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

It's unfair to put that pressure on ANY of our pitchers.  Four runs should have been manageable for us to come back against.  Maybe just a minut point, but one of those should have been an out.

But that is unfortunately how the cookie crumbles this season. Our pitchers have to suck it up and work under these conditions. It's not fair, but it doesn't excuse the performance of the pitchers. They've got to be a little tougher than usual.

[PatsNats28]

If you're not happy with him giving up only 4 runs given up in 27.2 innings since being re-called I don't know what will make you happy.  If he keeps up this level of performance he is easily the most dominant pitcher on the staff.

Completely agreed. You're way to negative Nats of the Living Dead

[Air Zimmerman]

a positive tonight and lately: lastings is BURNING UP the bases!

[kimnat]

But that is unfortunately how the cookie crumbles this season. Our pitchers have to suck it up and work under these conditions. It's not fair, but it doesn't excuse the performance of the pitchers. They've got to be a little tougher than usual.

That's a pretty tall order for 5 pitchers some here claim are nothing more than AAAA caliber - if that much. 

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Completely agreed. You're way to negative Nats of the Living Dead

OMG, YOU BIG BULLIES!!!! THIS IS MY LAST POSTING!!! GOOD-BYE


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Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

Any other night, any other pitcher that gives up four home runs in a game, you all would be all over him screaming and calling him an jerk (*see other gamethreads). Call it what you wish so you can make yourselves feel better but no pitcher should be doing that: period.

[Air Zimmerman]

and for the record, i'm still a berg believer...i just think the 4 homers he gave up tonight are alarming and unacceptable no matter how well he performed outside of the 4 homers.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

That's a pretty tall order for 5 pitchers some here claim are nothing more than AAAA caliber - if that much. 

Which is part of the reason why we are where we are right now. None of these guys are top notch so don't expect everyone to agree when you place them up on a pedestal.

[ronnynat]

Any other night, any other pitcher that gives up four home runs in a game, you all would be all over him screaming and calling him an jerk (*see other gamethreads).

The only way to test that is to have another pitcher go 8 innings and only give up 4 solo shots. I'm pretty sure that's never happened before, so there's no comparison yet.

[sportsfan882]

Which is part of the reason why we are where we are right now. None of these guys are top notch so don't expect to everyone to agree when you place them up on a pedestal.

We have 5, yes 5 starters with an ERA 4.50 or under.

John Lannan: 3.52 ERA
Tim Redding: 3.71 ERA
Shawn Hill: 4.02 ERA
Odalis Perez: 4.14 ERA
Jason Bergmann: 4.50 ERA

That's pretty remarkable if you ask me. It's surely not our starting rotation's fault that we are 9 games under .500. Blame the non-existent offense and the inconsistent bullpen.

[ronnynat]

Which is part of the reason why we are where we are right now. None of these guys are top notch so don't expect everyone to agree when you place them up on a pedestal.

A very small part has been the starting pitching. Our offense and bullpen take most of the blame for about 75-80% of our losses.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

We have 5, yes 5 starters with an ERA 4.50 or under.

John Lannan: 3.52 ERA
Tim Redding: 3.71 ERA
Shawn Hill: 4.02 ERA
Odalis Perez: 4.14 ERA
Jason Bergmann: 4.50 ERA

That's pretty remarkable if you ask me. It's surely not our starting rotation's fault that we are 9 games under .500. Blame the non-existent offense and the inconsistent bullpen.

I don't lay the blame on the rotation or the offense. I blame the team as a whole. The offense has been putrid, yes, but we have all seen the rotation give up some real cherries, and the bullpen bare it's ass. It's collective. This whole team is on trial and it's coaches and FO.

I ask you honestly, would you feel confident bringing that very rotation as is into the playoffs?

[NatsAddict]

One thing you need to learn is if a pitcher has good off-speed stuff that you know you can not hit, and he throws a fastball strike on first pitch, well you swing.

That's only partially true.  If you are a fastball hitter, and the fastball is in your hitting zone, then and only then do you nail it.  If, for example, you can't handle an inside fastball under your hands, and that's what you get, you still let it go.  Even if you can handle the pitch, it depends on how well you handle it for the situation.  With a runner on 3b and less than 2 out, if you are a ground ball hitter, you want a pitch that if nothing else you can at least hit to a middle IF rather than a corner IF.  Even if not a ordinarily a GB hitter, but generally lack enough pop to reliably drive a fly ball deep enough to score the run, you look for a pitch you can put on the ground up the middle.

[ronnynat]

I ask you honestly, would you feel confident bringing that very rotation as is into the playoffs?

Which offense are we taking with us?

[kimnat]

Which is part of the reason why we are where we are right now. None of these guys are top notch so don't expect everyone to agree when you place them up on a pedestal.

Pedestal??  Just because I support the guy for making my 8 yo son speechless with happiness?  Yeah!  I appreciate him and root for him.  Anything wrong with that?  Oh, I get it, you want me to do the "F this, he's can't perform worth S, send him down, he's garbage and shouldn't be in a uniform." 

Well get off your frickin horse, Mr. Oh I'm Not a Pitcher, I Just think I Know Better than Them!  So he's not perfect.  Tell me the last time you were!  And how come you're not upset that we got SHUT OUT!  Gee, seems to me that you see the big GOOSE EGG on our part as just a WEE bit less important than the 4 dingers.  He pitched the 1st CG since Astacio in 8/06!  Just blow your smoke somewhere else.

[BBQ]

Just like me, I have had 4 breaking balls pitched against me 3 swings at miss [different games] 1K and 1 time I hit a dribler between 3rd and short and beat it out.

A kid on my team has a curveball that is just sick. Even the umps are like holy crap when they see it.

[sportsfan882]

I don't lay the blame on the rotation or the offense. I blame the team as a whole. The offense has been putrid, yes, but we have all seen the rotation give up some real cherries, and the bullpen bare it's ass. It's collective. This whole team is on trial and it's coaches and FO.

I ask you honestly, would you feel confident bringing that very rotation as is into the playoffs?

Our rotation isn't perfect nor is it very experienced but they wouldn't embarrass us.  How many teams in baseball have 5 starters with ERAs 4.50 or lower? 

Our starting pitching and defense is good enough for us to be over .500 and competing for first in the division. It's our lack of offense and crappy relief work that have us in the cellar. It doesn't matter how good your starting pitching is if you can't score runs. Pitching keeps you in games but it can't win them for you.

[kimnat]

Which offense are we taking with us?

QFT, give us a new hitting coach, who's actually good and I'll keep that rotation.