Author Topic: The Future of Baseball in SE Florida - The Ballpark of the Palm Beaches  (Read 79281 times)

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Offline PowerBoater69

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With the move from Space Coast official, even though the move to Kissimmee has still not been finalized, I'm starting a new thread to discuss the planning and development of the new spring training facilities and surrounding area.


1) Ballpark and Practice Fields
  • First of all, it needs to be a small park, ~7,000 seats capacity, maybe a bit more with lots of lawn seating.  This matches up with the Astros, Cards/Marlins, and Tigers parks. In contrast to the the Nats and Braves parks. (Although Joker Marchant is bigger than Space Coast, it pulls off the small park feel.) It should have minimal foul territory so that you are right up close to the action.  Definitely no upper deck.
  • There needs to be a retractable roof.  Not really, but a retractable sun screen is must have.  Some springs the temps max out at 70 degrees during the day and you want to sit in the sun.  But many times I've been down there and the temps are in the 90s and with no shade you are sitting in the sun for four hours straight.  This is fine for Florida residents who are used to it, but I'm flying in from DC so my pasty white skin hasn't seen the sun in six months and I need some relief.  I know that a lot of people want to sit in the sun, but most of the parks have nearly no shade, I'd like to see at least a quarter of the park covered on hot days.
  • A big screen for replays sure would be nice. Not Nats Park big, but about the size of the ones they have at Verizon Center.
  • Bullpens up the baselines like at Wrigley.  Houston has this now and it's cool to be able to sit down right where the relievers are sitting.
  • Practice fields immediately next to the ballpark. I'm not an autograph guy, but I know that the close proximity of the practice fields to the ballpark is one of the most appreciated aspects of Space Coast stadium and it would be nice to have this continue at the new facility.
2) Hotels
  • I'd put a giant resort hotel directly between the practice fields (assuming that there are two teams, which by the current math there are 5 minus 4 teams available to move in).  One side of the hotel for each team so that fans can watch their team practice while sitting on their balcony.  (Needs to be suites with a fridge and a microwave.)
  • Make the main hotel baseball themed, baseball pictures and motifs everywhere, memorabilia in the lobby. And a sports bar with a ton of TVs since the NCAA tournament will be going on at the same time as spring training.
  • Have meet and greets for breakfast, bring in old players, media guys, maybe the GM once or twice.  People will pay a ton to eat cheap food with 150 other people if Nick Johnson and Brian Schneider stop by to shake hands and take a picture.
  • Waterslides, lots of waterslides, maybe even a wave pool.  Got to keep the whole family happy while Dad watches the ballgames.
  • Bus trips to away games.  One of the biggest issues of spring training is that they play at home and away just about every other day, so there is a lot of driving. I'd be happy to pay a few bucks to ride down to Lakeland with a bunch of other Nats fans rather than driving myself.
  • Cheap hotels, there needs to be some no frills options around for the guys who fly down for the weekend and don't need or want all the resort extras. This is also must have for the minor league guys who have a minimal budget.
3) Surrounding Area
  • The whole ballpark and hotel area needs to be walkable. I want to be able to watch practice, catch a game, pick up the family at the pool, and head to dinner without having to get in a car.
  • It would be real nice to have some typical beach area staples like mini-golf, go-karts, and carnival rides nearby.
  • Restaurants of course, got to have plenty of options.  A steakhouse, seafood, pizza, Hooters...
  • A Walmart, Publics, or at least a drug store within a mile.  We always need to pick up some of the basic stuff like suntan lotion, bottled water, snacks, and beer, and the hotel store mark-ups will kill you.
  • Highway access.  I don't want to have to spend 10 minutes navigating through the back roads of Kissimmee each time I head to a road game or up to Disney World.  I want to pull out of the hotel parking lot and on to a major highway.
Here is the link to the previous thread documenting the search for a new location:
http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=21611

Offline TigerFan

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #1: June 30, 2013, 11:53:45 AM »
I like most, if not all, of your ideas for the new area.  I would imagine these things and a multitude of other things have been discussed. 

Are they going to be building a new stadium or taking over/rejuvenating an existing ballpark?

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #2: June 30, 2013, 12:10:43 PM »
Are they going to be building a new stadium or taking over/rejuvenating an existing ballpark?

I get the impression that it will be a green field starting point, no constraints based on existing facilities.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #3: June 30, 2013, 04:37:05 PM »
With the move from Space Coast official, even though the move to Kissimmee has still not been finalized, I'm starting a new thread to discuss the planning and development of the new spring training facilities and surrounding area.


1) Ballpark and Practice Fields
  • First of all, it needs to be a small park, ~7,000 seats capacity, maybe a bit more with lots of lawn seating.  This matches up with the Astros, Cards/Marlins, and Tigers parks. In contrast to the the Nats and Braves parks. (Although Joker Marchant is bigger than Space Coast, it pulls off the small park feel.) It should have minimal foul territory so that you are right up close to the action.  Definitely no upper deck.
  • There needs to be a retractable roof.  Not really, but a retractable sun screen is must have.  Some springs the temps max out at 70 degrees during the day and you want to sit in the sun.  But many times I've been down there and the temps are in the 90s and with no shade you are sitting in the sun for four hours straight.  This is fine for Florida residents who are used to it, but I'm flying in from DC so my pasty white skin hasn't seen the sun in six months and I need some relief.  I know that a lot of people want to sit in the sun, but most of the parks have nearly no shade, I'd like to see at least a quarter of the park covered on hot days.
  • A big screen for replays sure would be nice. Not Nats Park big, but about the size of the ones they have at Verizon Center.
  • Bullpens up the baselines like at Wrigley.  Houston has this now and it's cool to be able to sit down right where the relievers are sitting.
  • Practice fields immediately next to the ballpark. I'm not an autograph guy, but I know that the close proximity of the practice fields to the ballpark is one of the most appreciated aspects of Space Coast stadium and it would be nice to have this continue at the new facility.

2) Hotels
  • I'd put a giant resort hotel directly between the practice fields (assuming that there are two teams, which by the current math there are 5 minus 4 teams available to move in).  One side of the hotel for each team so that fans can watch their team practice while sitting on their balcony.  (Needs to be suites with a fridge and a microwave.)
  • Make the main hotel baseball themed, baseball pictures and motifs everywhere, memorabilia in the lobby. And a sports bar with a ton of TVs since the NCAA tournament will be going on at the same time as spring training.
  • Have meet and greets for breakfast, bring in old players, media guys, maybe the GM once or twice.  People will pay a ton to eat cheap food with 150 other people if Nick Johnson and Brian Schneider stop by to shake hands and take a picture.
  • Waterslides, lots of waterslides, maybe even a wave pool.  Got to keep the whole family happy while Dad watches the ballgames.
  • Bus trips to away games.  One of the biggest issues of spring training is that they play at home and away just about every other day, so there is a lot of driving. I'd be happy to pay a few bucks to ride down to Lakeland with a bunch of other Nats fans rather than driving myself.
  • Cheap hotels, there needs to be some no frills options around for the guys who fly down for the weekend and don't need or want all the resort extras. This is also must have for the minor league guys who have a minimal budget.


3) Surrounding Area
  • The whole ballpark and hotel area needs to be walkable. I want to be able to watch practice, catch a game, pick up the family at the pool, and head to dinner without having to get in a car.
  • It would be real nice to have some typical beach area staples like mini-golf, go-karts, and carnival rides nearby.
  • Restaurants of course, got to have plenty of options.  A steakhouse, seafood, pizza, Hooters...
  • A Walmart, Publics, or at least a drug store within a mile.  We always need to pick up some of the basic stuff like suntan lotion, bottled water, snacks, and beer, and the hotel store mark-ups will kill you.
  • Highway access.  I don't want to have to spend 10 minutes navigating through the back roads of Kissimmee each time I head to a road game or up to Disney World.  I want to pull out of the hotel parking lot and on to a major highway.

Here is the link to the previous thread documenting the search for a new location:
http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=21611

I want access to the team masseuse.

Offline TigerFan

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #4: June 30, 2013, 04:48:00 PM »
I want access to the team masseuse.

Due to many inappropriate requests made by BH to be in the same room as Bryce the team has a firm no requests policy. 

Offline machpost

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #5: July 01, 2013, 12:35:34 PM »
Someone is going to have to build all of this fast, too. It's a little bit hard to believe that it could all be finished in 18 months or less. I wonder if they might take over the Astros' old facility temporarily, until the new digs are finished.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #6: July 01, 2013, 08:01:43 PM »
Someone is going to have to build all of this fast, too. It's a little bit hard to believe that it could all be finished in 18 months or less. I wonder if they might take over the Astros' old facility temporarily, until the new digs are finished.

Could be, wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, it's a very nice little park.  (I think that their beer selection was Bud, Bud Lite, and Mic Ultra.)

Might be that they have to build in stages, put up the ballpark and practice facilities first, then fill in with hotels and other stuff.

One thing I just remembered that the new ballpark needs is a kids play area like at Nats Park.  Houston has one at their park but there was nothing of the sort at Space Coast. Sure helps motivating the kids to catch a game if there is going to be a moon bounce there.

Offline imref

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #7: July 01, 2013, 09:19:14 PM »
Could we share Disney with the braves?

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #8: July 01, 2013, 09:57:47 PM »
Could we share Disney with the braves?

Yes, that was a leading rumor back when Kasten was President, partially due to his history with Disney when he was running the Braves.  I'm not sure why that idea got dropped.

The park is a bit over-sized for spring training, but it has a great lawn area from about 3rd base on.  One of the biggest team stores around, although there are only so many Disney/Nats cross-over items I can handle.
 

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #9: July 01, 2013, 10:15:11 PM »
Could we share Disney with the braves?

No way. You don't share a stadium with a division opponent.

Offline imref

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #10: July 01, 2013, 10:20:57 PM »
No way. You don't share a stadium with a division opponent.

i'm thinking just until we get our own place (or one with Houston).

Offline imref

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #11: July 01, 2013, 10:21:44 PM »
Yes, that was a leading rumor back when Kasten was President, partially due to his history with Disney when he was running the Braves.  I'm not sure why that idea got dropped.

The park is a bit over-sized for spring training, but it has a great lawn area from about 3rd base on.  One of the biggest team stores around, although there are only so many Disney/Nats cross-over items I can handle.
 


Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #12: July 08, 2013, 09:15:34 PM »
"State-of-the-art complex", I like the sound of that.  HKS is no rinky-dink firm.

Interesting note that the new ballpark is being projected to open in 2017 and the Nats have indicated that they are moving out of Viera after 2014, which could mean two years at Osceola County Stadium, which would not be bad at all.

Quote
Expected to Lose Astros, Kissimmee Aims to Lure New Team(s) to New Facility Circa 2017

With the Astros all but certain to bolt Kissimmee following 2016 spring training for a new complex near West Palm Beach, the movers and shakers in Osceola County want to build a new spring training complex across the street from the Astros' current site that could host two teams, if two teams can be found. Current speculation has the Nationals landing in Kissimmee regardless; the new wrinkle is Osceola County/Kissimmee is now angling to make their proposed investment a dual-team complex. If they can entice two teams, Osceola County, of which Kissimmee is the county seat, estimates that their "state-of-the-art complex featuring an all-new stadium, hotels and other amenities" would cost $140 million, of which the State of Florida would pay $50 million of. If it's just the Nationals (or one team), then the new complex estimate is in the $85 million to $95 million range, with the state's contribution capped at $20 million. Beyond what the state will pay, Osceola County will likely pay the full balance as the team(s) they would lure would likely not foot any of the bill. The county would be willing to make that deal given that a new two-team complex "has a projected annual economic impact of $173.6 million" on the area, according to a July 3rd article in the Orlando Sentinel. Although such numbers often seem bloated and hard to prove, the Astros in 2013 were said to have an economic impact of $65.6 million, which is an impressive estimate for a team that was factually 30th out of 30th in spring training home attendance, as the Astros pulled in a mere 3,350 per game (no other team averaged less than 4,000). If the County Commission approves what has presently been planned, the new spring training complex would be designed by HKS Architects and should open in 2017.

http://www.springtrainingconnection.com/

Offline OldNatsFan

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #13: July 09, 2013, 09:07:38 AM »
It says the Astros are leaving Kissimmee after 2016 spring training so are they going to share with the Nats in 2015 and 2016?

Offline Galah

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #14: July 09, 2013, 09:48:01 AM »
....all that for an attraction that only lasts 6 weeks out of the year??? Heck, we built a new ball park in the heart of DC for an attraction that's there for 6 months out of the year and 5 years later we finally see restaurants nearby ....and they could have been catering to workers at DoT and Navy Yard in the off season...

Online Mattionals

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #15: July 09, 2013, 10:41:11 AM »
....all that for an attraction that only lasts 6 weeks out of the year??? Heck, we built a new ball park in the heart of DC for an attraction that's there for 6 months out of the year and 5 years later we finally see restaurants nearby ....and they could have been catering to workers at DoT and Navy Yard in the off season...

The Nats will also move their GCL Rookie league team to the facility and the extended spring training complex.  It's also in the heart of tourist country so I believe it will pack well.


Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #16: July 09, 2013, 10:46:45 AM »
When I go to Nats Park I never stay at a hotel and I rarely buy food, much less go to a restaurant near the park.

Having 5-10,000 Nats fans and 5-10,000 Blue Jays fans in town per week over five weeks is a heck of a lot of money for hotels, food, and entertainment.

Offline plinko83

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #17: July 09, 2013, 11:10:49 AM »
No way. You don't share a stadium with a division opponent.

Except that the Braves and Expos shared for decades, including the 90s when they were in the same division.  And the diamondbacks and rockies share a facility in Arizona.  So yeah, that's not gonna stop it.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #18: July 09, 2013, 11:55:28 PM »
The latest:

Quote
Osceola County Commissioner Fred Hawkins Jr. described the Washington Nationals architectural plans and renderings for a $98 million state-of-the-art spring training facility in Kissimmee as "beautiful."

On Wednesday, Osceola County's Tourist Development Council will get its chance to see the proposal for the 6,500-seat facility. The Nationals are proposing to build the sprawling two-team facility, complete with extra fields for games and workouts, on vacant land across the street from the Osceola County Stadium in Kissimmee.

Hawkins Jr. says the crown jewel is the clubhouse, which in renderings he looked at appeared "simply beautiful" to him.
The clubhouse???  Who the freak cares about the clubhouse?  Sure I'm fine with a nice clubhouse but I'm not planning my vacation around Jayson Werth being comfy.

Note that the Nats proposal is still based on building a two team facility, but there are zero other teams that have given any public indication whatsoever that they intend to team up with the Nats.  (Which is not too surprising, word gets around about the joys of going into a partnership with the Lerners.)

Quote
On Tuesday, top brass from Major League Baseball's Washington Nationals presented their proposal for a brand new dual stadium to each of Osceola County's five commissioners.  The Nationals recently told officials in Brevard County, where they currently play in Viera, the team does not intend to renew it's lease at Space Coast Stadium.

But because the massive new spring training stadium would require a substantial financial commitment from the county, it could face an uphill battle for approval from the commission. "I'm anxious to see the tourist community's reaction to this proposal first," Hawkins said. "If they are not positive, it would be a hard sell."
Oh man, is this getting good! The Nats have severed ties with their old ballpark deal before financing is in place to build the new park.  I hope they know what they are doing but they've broken the cardinal rule about finding a new girl before cutting the old one loose. With their insulting offer to Viera to break the lease it would certainly be fun to be in the meeting where they have to beg their way back in.

Quote
Also concerning to the commissioner was the absence of plans for a private developer to build a hotel on the stadium's property.  As it stands, the team would have to drive 45 minutes to the nearest hotel.

"There wasn't a real commitment to build a hotel," said Hawkins Jr.
What kind of half-baked crap are the Nats pulling?  No hotel in the area?  Why would Kissimmee even consider a plan that didn't include hotels to keep the tourist money in town?  How does it benefit the team to have less of a drive to the opposing ballparks if the players have to then drive 45 minutes to get home every night?  My confidence level in this FO pulling this off is plummeting.

(Although the 45 number isn't right, all of the Disney hotels are a good bit closer.)

Quote
The Washington Nationals vice president also promised he would pump "a lot of money" into the community, but he wouldn't commit to a specific amount, says Hawkins Jr.
Hahahahahahahaaaa!!!!!  Hey Hawkins, you big dummy, you're dealing with an old miser who questioned team expenditures on sun flower seeds.  Let me give you a little heads up, any Lerner plan starts and ends with them pulling out one hell of a lot more money than they put in.


http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/22799193/washington-nationals-98m-state-of-the-art-stadium-hard-sell-for-one-osceola-county-commissioner

Offline TigerFan

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #19: July 10, 2013, 12:33:59 AM »
Oh man, is this getting good! The Nats have severed ties with their old ballpark deal before financing is in place to build the new park.  I hope they know what they are doing but they've broken the cardinal rule about finding a new girl before cutting the old one loose. With their insulting offer to Viera to break the lease it would certainly be fun to be in the meeting where they have to beg their way back in.

You're kidding right?  Views would take the Nats back in an instant.  The money that comes with those six weeks is too much to turn down.  Sure they might postulate, hem and has but they would take them back quickly. 

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #20: July 10, 2013, 07:29:37 AM »
You're kidding right?  Views would take the Nats back in an instant.  The money that comes with those six weeks is too much to turn down.  Sure they might postulate, hem and has but they would take them back quickly. 

Probably, but still the Nats would be in a bit of an uncomfortable spot.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #21: July 10, 2013, 07:43:23 AM »
Some better info from Dave Berman via Florida Today:

Quote
In its proposal, Dallas-based HKS Sports & Entertainment said it could have a two-team stadium ready in time for the 2015 spring training season.
Meaning of course that there would be no need to move into Osceola County Stadium for a year, which never made sense anyway, why make two moves, they'd just stay in Viera an extra year if they didn't think the new park could be built in time.


Quote
Preliminary plans presented by Osceola County officials to tourism leaders show a 9,000-seat stadium; 10 practice fields for major league, minor league and amateur baseball use; and up to two 200-room hotels on county-owned land about 1.5 miles east of downtown Kissimmee.
9,000 seats is on the big but not quite huge side for a spring training park.  For a team that has not drawn big crowds I'm not sure how the Nats sell this.

Hotels! Two big ones, right on site. Good to see that cleared up.


Quote
Kriss Titus, executive director and lobbyist for the Kissimmee Tourism Education Association, told commissioners said she is concerned about using county room tax money to fund up to $6.5 million in preliminary architecture work.  She urged commissioners to “slow this down and have some discussion, and see where we’re going.”

Slowing things down is the smart move, this is a lot of money being proposed, but the Nats have a plan and a short timeline.  The little town tourism association director is about to play hardball with the billionaire developer from up north.


http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20130710/NEWS01/307100040/Osceola-hears-plan-build-2-team-park

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #22: July 10, 2013, 03:37:13 PM »


Can't see anything on my phone except a lot of ball fields and water.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: The Future of Baseball in Central Florida
« Reply #23: July 11, 2013, 11:30:21 AM »
The tourism board approved the plan, now it goes to the county Council. Some great stuff in this article. A 360 degree deck around the ballpark, can't wait to see what that will look like.

www.myfoxorlando.com/story/22815490/osceola-tourism-board-oks-98m-plan-for-washington-nationals-stadium

Offline PowerBoater69

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