2011 Post Draft Discussion / Signing Watch

[tomterp]

The thing is, people criticizing that comment aren't seeing the big picture.

By saying solidifies, it means the Nationals were already the talk of the industry before this.

And thats with guys like Strasburg and Harper, but also because of Espinosa, Zimmermann and Storen at the big league level. And the rise of Brad Peacok and Stephen Lombardozzi, the early successes of AJ Cole and Robbie Ray, the emergence of Destin Hood, etc.

There is more to this than just this draft. We have been on the rise in terms of the farm system for two years now. Adding in the fact that we signed all four guys(in which EVERYONE thought we'd only get 3), does solidify the Nationals as the talk of the industry.

And once more - scouting goes beyond just seeing the talent. Getting a feel for the kid and what his price tag may be and what the risks are is another part of scouting. We took gambles other teams were not willing to. And while the kids need to get out and play, getting them signed at this moment is still a positive for this organization.

I'm not saying Rizzo shouldn't be commended for the work thus far.  I would feel a lot better about player development if we had some successes of guys we actually developed given most of them to reach so far - Zimmerman, Storen, Strasburg most notably, were pretty much major league ready.  Ok - Lannan and Zimmermann were developed nicely, but I'd like to see Cole, Peacock, Lombardozzi, etc make it before I think our player dev is anything more than so-so.

I will make one more additional comment, regarding Rizzo's immodest exuberance - if you're really the talk of the industry, is it necessary to say so?  Wouldn't those others doing the talking do so with a lot more credibility?

Now, back to the celebration....

 

[Rasta]

And let's not forget, he's the guy who got the Lerners to spend on the draft and to expand the scouting department.  Bowden & Kasten never accomplished that.  That in and of itself may be his biggest accomplishment.

[tomterp]

And let's not forget, he's the guy who got the Lerners to spend on the draft and to expand the scouting department.  Bowden & Kasten never accomplished that.  That in and of itself may be his biggest accomplishment.

That's an excellent point.  One does have the suspicion that persuading the Lerners to open the checkbook is more than a simple exercise in filling out a form.

[HalfSmokes]

Wow, this isn't getting interesting. its just plain pathetic now.

So now you're trying to argue that Im acting like Rizzo has won us numerous World Series' by talking about what where our minor league system has gone in the past 2 or 3 years?

You're comprehension skills are terrible.

and thats with guys like Strasburg and Harper, but also because of Espinosa, Zimmermann and Storen at the big league level. And the rise of Brad Peacok and Stephen Lombardozzi, the early successes of AJ Cole and Robbie Ray, the emergence of Destin Hood, etc.

you'd be hard pressed to find teams without guys like espinosa, Zimmermann and Storen combined with prospects putting up good numbers in the minors. This is what I mean when I talk about people slobbering over Rizzo. We have a stud young pitcher that we drafted and developed - great so do most teams in our division. Most of them also have closers with decent numbers and rookies playing well.
 If I'm not being specific enough, the braves have Freeman, Hanson, and Kimbrell

[RD]

Nobody said other teams are not doing well, or that we have the best system in the minors.

This is about the Nationals. Most of the other teams have done well over a long period of time and keep shuffling talent through the system. That's what we're striving for obviously. But, the point here is about the Nationals and how people are talking about them. And people are talking about the Nationals because of the kids they have coming up in their farm system or have recently graduated to the big league roster. And that farm system was one of the worst 3 years ago, and is now one of the better ones in the entire league. That turn around with elite talent and talent throughout the system is impressive.

I dont see why that's so hard to understand.

[PterodactylKev]

and I'd credit him for all of those but taking the number 1 ranked player going into a draft (Rendon) isn't good scouting

Great strategy and certainly a risk.  You could argue we fell into our lap all day, but if he lives up to the potential, I hope you can AT LEAST say Mike Rizzo is smarter/ballsier than the GMs of the Pirates, Mariners, DBacks, Orioles and Royals.

It's okay to give the dude credit sometimes.  I'm not sure a lot of GMs in the league could have accomplished what this organization did last night.

[wpa2629]

And let's not forget, he's the guy who got the Lerners to spend on the draft and to expand the scouting department.  Bowden & Kasten never accomplished that.  That in and of itself may be his biggest accomplishment.

Meh. I think the reason Bowden and kasten were even around was because they told the lerners the could operate on the cheap. I don't think they wanted to be big spenders  Particularly kasten who was so obviously a mole for that Mouth breather bud. Clearly that path had disAsterous consequences. That's on the lerners. However it is to their credit now that they are wiing to so profoundly change directions  time will tell how that works out for all of us.

[HalfSmokes]

because baseball isn't a vacum. One team can only do well relative to others and just doing what other teams do isn't an accomplishment.

[RD]

because baseball isn't a vacum. One team can only do well relative to others and just doing what other teams do isn't an accomplishment.

There arent many organizations that have added as much elite talent over the past 3 years as the Nationals have.

[HalfSmokes]

Great strategy and certainly a risk.  You could argue we fell into our lap all day, but if he lives up to the potential, I hope you can AT LEAST say Jim Rizzo is smarter/ballsier than the GMs of the Pirates, Mariners, DBacks, Orioles and Royals.

It's okay to give the dude credit sometimes.  I'm not sure a lot of GMs in the league could accomplish what this organization did last night.

I'll say I'd take Rizzo over Zduriencik, McPhail or Moore right now. That being said, given the budget, I'm sure most GMs could do what Rizzo did last night- he essentially met predraft demands of players and they signed. Purke's bonus was lower then he wanted, but the ML contract balances that

[HalfSmokes]

There arent many organizations that have added as much elite talent over the past 3 years as the Nationals have.

There aren't any that had two number 1 over all picks to help accomplish that

[Lintyfresh85]

And why is that the case?

Because the MLB side of things has been in disrepair.

[PterodactylKev]

because baseball isn't a vacum. One team can only do well relative to others and just doing what other teams do isn't an accomplishment.

You're not getting it then.  This team is doing things that it HAS NOT done before.  We are MOVING in the right direction.  We have COMPETENT people in the front office.  We are NOT going to lose 100 games this year.  The very fact that we are able to compare ourselves to other organizations is an accomplishment.  Baby steps.

Rizzo certianly has had a role in all of this.

[RD]

because baseball isn't a vacum. One team can only do well relative to others and just doing what other teams do isn't an accomplishment.

You are the one making the terrible comparison of winning multiple world series' and stating the obvious about the talent overhaul in the system over the past three years.

[wpa2629]

Halfsmokes. You can't compare nats farm system to anyone else in terms of how far along they are. The mets braves and phillies have been around for decades. The Nats have been here about a minute and started from absolute  scratch.

[MarquisDeSade]

And why is that the case?

Because the MLB side of things has been in disrepair.

Yup.  He and his staff get props for signing everyone last night but let's remember the MLB product, as of today, is mediocre at best. 

[HalfSmokes]

Halfsmokes. You can't compare nats farm system to anyone else in terms of how far along they are. The mets braves and phillies have been around for decades. The Nats have been here about a minute and started from absolute  scratch.

the Nats have been around long enough to turn over every top prospect in most systems- even an 18 year old taken when we came here should be ready now. Of course we have to give them a pass because until recently they didn't bother stocking it

[imref]

Halfsmokes. You can't compare nats farm system to anyone else in terms of how far along they are. The mets braves and phillies have been around for decades. The Nats have been here about a minute and started from absolute  scratch.

well, we've been drafting near the top for almost all of the last 6 years.

[wpa2629]

the Nats have been around long enough to turn over every top prospect in most systems- even an 18 year old taken when we came here should be ready now. Of course we have to give them a pass because until recently they didn't bother stocking it

MLB owned the team the first two years. Bowden debacle  the next two. This is only Rizzo's third draft and things are so obviously better. I think that's the point everyone is trying to make. Chest thumping and bravado aside.

[wpa2629]

well, we've been drafting near the top for almost all of the last 6 years.

Lol MLB and Bowden don't count. Though he did sign zim so props for that.

[Kevrock]

well, we've been drafting near the top for almost all of the last 6 years.

The Rays were doing it for a decade. No success until the Wall Street boys.

[houston-nat]

Because the MLB side of things has been in disrepair.

The MLB side of things has improved by almost (not counting chickens yet) 20 games since 2009. It's still not great, but it's sort of like taking a fire-gutted house from the blocks of east Detroit and rebuilding it. We've got the framework up, time to put in the dry wall.

[Glockypoo]

he essentially met predraft demands of players and they signed. Purke's bonus was lower then he wanted, but the ML contract balances that

Goodwin's contract was actually probably the toughest to negotiate. He got a huge bonus.

[houston-nat]

I will say that I think the cases of Purke, Werth, and a couple other guys have indicated that, though Rizzo may lack "people skills," he does have some persuasive skills. Give the guy a Powerpoint and a half hour and a really large checkbook and he can get anyone to join the Nats.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Yup.  He and his staff get props for signing everyone last night but let's remember the MLB product, as of today, is mediocre at best. 

I'm not one to try to augment Rizzo's reputation, but I feel compelled to point out that mediocre is at least markedly better than the 100-loss team he inherited.