Author Topic: Trade: Asdrubal here, Walters not so much (Read 2475 times)

mmzznnxx · « **Reply #50:** July 31, 2014, 03:18:32 PM »

If Espinosa's still in the organization by the end of today this is a loss. I don't give a freak if you trade him for a hot dog voucher at CitiField, just get that cancer out of the body.

wpa2629 · « **Reply #51:** July 31, 2014, 03:19:05 PM »

Quote from: mmzznnxx on July 31, 2014, 03:18:32 PM

If Espinosa's still in the organization by the end of today this is a loss. I don't give a freak if you trade him for a hot dog voucher at CitiField, just get that cancer out of the body.

This is not happening

Ali the Baseball Cat · « **Reply #52:** July 31, 2014, 03:19:23 PM »

Just heard from a friend who is a big Indians fan, and he's quite baffled by the whole thing

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #53:** July 31, 2014, 03:19:31 PM »

Danny is a good bench player.

Monarch · « **Reply #54:** July 31, 2014, 03:19:47 PM »

Espi is Rizzo's guy just like span is. they'll both be in the organization as long as possible.

wpa2629 · « **Reply #55:** July 31, 2014, 03:19:47 PM »

Random facts are Random

Byron Kerr ‏@masnKerr 57s

Asdrubal Cabrera two-time All-Star, averaged 34 doubles, top 20 in A.L., from 2011-2013

pazzo83 · « **Reply #56:** July 31, 2014, 03:20:09 PM »

Quote from: mmzznnxx on July 31, 2014, 03:18:32 PM

If Espinosa's still in the organization by the end of today this is a loss. I don't give a freak if you trade him for a hot dog voucher at CitiField, just get that cancer out of the body.

Hey man, we're talking Citi Field here, best you could do is a fish taco voucher or maybe some Korean-Belgian fusion.

varoadking · « **Reply #57:** July 31, 2014, 03:20:17 PM »

Quote from: mmzznnxx on July 31, 2014, 03:18:32 PM

If Espinosa's still in the organization by the end of today this is a loss. I don't give a freak if you trade him for a hot dog voucher at CitiField, just get that cancer out of the body.

Rizzo won't do it now...he may have tried to dump 3KEspi rather than Walters...

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #58:** July 31, 2014, 03:20:20 PM »

If Walters starts for the Indians, we'll know pretty quickly if this was a good trade

wpa2629 · « **Reply #59:** July 31, 2014, 03:21:33 PM »

Beyond the Box Score @BtBScore

Here are the ZiPS projections for Washington’s 2B through the rest of the year: Danny Espinosa: 78 Asdrubal Cabrera: 104 That’s an upgrade.
3:09 PM - 31 Jul 2014

spidernat · « **Reply #60:** July 31, 2014, 03:21:58 PM »

houston-nat · « **Reply #61:** July 31, 2014, 03:22:03 PM »

FanGraphs analysis was posted quickly:

---

And the upgrade over Danny Espinosa is undebatable. Though Espinosa has recovered some of his value from his nadir, and is showing some power and speed, there are two facets of his game that have not recovered. His league-average or better walk rate has not returned (5.6% BB%), and his glove is not rated well this year (-1.1 UZR). Cabrera should be able to match that defense with the shift from short, and his offense is just about league average these days.

They’re trading a potential shortstop for a couple months of a second baseman. You can’t debate that. Even as he’s moved on to other positions, Zach Walters played twice as many games at short than any other.

But even while you acknowledge the risk, you can point to the risk inherent in Walters. Not only as a prospect, but as a prospect with a low walk rate and a high strikeout rate. Prospects with that sort of a profile at 24 years old in Triple-A had an 88% bust rate according to Chris St. John’s work.

So, yeah, they took a chance. A chance that has about 12% likelihood of burning them.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/nationals-take-a-risk-in-dealing-risky-prospect/

Mattionals · « **Reply #62:** July 31, 2014, 03:23:42 PM »

Well I guess I should get my Walters jersey changed to something else.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #63:** July 31, 2014, 03:25:05 PM »

Quote from: Mattionals on July 31, 2014, 03:23:42 PM

Well I guess I should get my Walters jersey changed to something else.

Like an Indians jersey?

nfotiu · « **Reply #64:** July 31, 2014, 03:26:00 PM »

Quote from: houston-nat on July 31, 2014, 03:22:03 PM

FanGraphs analysis was posted quickly:

---

And the upgrade over Danny Espinosa is undebatable. Though Espinosa has recovered some of his value from his nadir, and is showing some power and speed, there are two facets of his game that have not recovered. His league-average or better walk rate has not returned (5.6% BB%), and his glove is not rated well this year (-1.1 UZR). Cabrera should be able to match that defense with the shift from short, and his offense is just about league average these days.

They’re trading a potential shortstop for a couple months of a second baseman. You can’t debate that. Even as he’s moved on to other positions, Zach Walters played twice as many games at short than any other.

But even while you acknowledge the risk, you can point to the risk inherent in Walters. Not only as a prospect, but as a prospect with a low walk rate and a high strikeout rate. Prospects with that sort of a profile at 24 years old in Triple-A had an 88% bust rate according to Chris St. John’s work.

So, yeah, they took a chance. A chance that has about 12% likelihood of burning them.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/nationals-take-a-risk-in-dealing-risky-prospect/

The other stuff sounds valid, but UZR and pretty much all defensive metrics are BS. Espinosa's defense is significantly better than anyone else we've played there or played against this year in the games I've watched.

WhiteWhale · « **Reply #65:** July 31, 2014, 03:27:20 PM »

Quote from: spidernat on July 31, 2014, 03:21:58 PM

(Image removed from quote.)

not sure what you mean to add to the tread deadline converstation by posting this but,
cant. stop. staring.

varoadking · « **Reply #66:** July 31, 2014, 03:27:41 PM »

Time to get the new guy in uniform tonight?

WhiteWhale · « **Reply #67:** July 31, 2014, 03:31:52 PM »

Quote from: varoadking on July 31, 2014, 03:27:41 PM

Time to get the new guy in uniform tonight?

No rush, Cliff Lee is pitching.
If this was done for a platoon, which it should be, then tonight would be Danny's night anyway

Mattionals · « **Reply #68:** July 31, 2014, 03:32:07 PM »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on July 31, 2014, 03:25:05 PM

Like an Indians jersey?

Nah, I'm not even sure I can get it it changed but it's an authentic jersey. Could I bring it somewhere to have it re-done? I may hold off until we know Desmond's fate.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #69:** July 31, 2014, 03:34:35 PM »

Quote from: Mattionals on July 31, 2014, 03:32:07 PM

Nah, I'm not even sure I can get it it changed but it's an authentic jersey. Could I bring it somewhere to have it re-done? I may hold off until we know Desmond's fate.

Just take the name-plate off yourself and wear it with the numbers.

Baseball is Life · « **Reply #70:** July 31, 2014, 03:48:58 PM »

Nice move. A LH bat at second. Fills that hole perfectly without giving up much. If Walters ends being a starting SS somewhere then so be it. He wasn't going to do that here.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #71:** July 31, 2014, 03:50:33 PM »

Quote from: Baseball is Life on July 31, 2014, 03:48:58 PM

Nice move. A LH bat at second. Fills that whole perfectly without giving up much.

You're an expert at filling wholes.

Baseball is Life · « **Reply #72:** July 31, 2014, 03:52:28 PM »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on July 31, 2014, 03:50:33 PM

You're an expert at filling wholes.

I see how that can be funny for a 12 year old.

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #73:** July 31, 2014, 03:57:47 PM »

This was a good move. Cabrera isn't a massive upgrade over Espinosa but he is an upgrade. He's a competent Major League hitter unlike Espinosa.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #74:** July 31, 2014, 03:59:33 PM »

Quote from: sportsfan882 on July 31, 2014, 03:57:47 PM

This was a good move. Cabrera isn't a massive upgrade over Espinosa but he is an upgrade. He's a competent Major League hitter unlike Espinosa.