Cubs Celebrate 25 Year Anniversary Of Calling Fans Names

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Classic Lee Elia tirade which completely rips Cubs fans and tells it like it is....

[ronnynat]

What he's talking about is the same issue I have w/ all fans that boo their home teams. It's not just Cubs fans.

[Obed_Marsh]

Lee Elia is a whiner who never lasted more than two years as a manager anywhere. It is little surprise that a former White Sox player did not do well as a manager at Wrigley Field. f em.

That said, I'm not into booing your own players. Now booing Lenny Harris may have some possibilities.

[Dave B]

Booing is fine.  If one of the perks of your job is being wildly cheered when you do something good, you have to accept the booing that comes when you stink.  If the Nats had continued losing, they should have been booed mercilessly.  Optimism, giving the benefit of the doubt, and patience clearly werent working. Need to try a different motivational technique, even if the players perform well to spite you and make you shut up

I've heard the argument "How would you like to be booed at work?".  Why dont you ask me if I would like to be cheered from time to time too?  Take the good with the bad.

[The Chief]

I'd really like to refrain from having profanity in thread titles guys.  Thanks.

[Obed_Marsh]

I'd really like to refrain from having profanity in thread titles guys.  Thanks.

To each his own.

You might also want to change original profanity laden thread title: "Screw those ****suckers!!!". I suggest taking MrMadison's phrase for the title, "People Wearing Cubs Shirts".

[The Chief]

To each his own.

You might also want to change original profanity laden thread title: "Screw those ****suckers!!!". I suggest taking MrMadison's phrase for the title, "People Wearing Cubs Shirts".

I don't mind if people want to cuss.  I've certainly indulged in it myself on occasion.  I mean to keep this place fairly family-friendly (though I've been doing a poor job lately) and that's why word censors here are optional (you can opt-out of them in your profile settings) but enabled by default.  I just don't want cursing in the thread titles because it's a little more "in your face."  People who might stay out of a thread they don't like probably don't want to have words like that thrown in their face every time they browse new postings.

It's all about balance.  I'm the guy in the unenviable position of trying to make everybody happy

[Obed_Marsh]

It's ok Chief. I wasn't giving you a hard time. I don't really care one way or the other but if the thread titles are getting cleaned up "Screw those ****suckers!!!"  doesn't seem any different to me.

[MrMadison]

It's ok Chief. I wasn't giving you a hard time. I don't really care one way or the other but if the thread titles are getting cleaned up "Screw those ****suckers!!!"  doesn't seem any different to me.

go look again. 

[Obed_Marsh]

go look again. 

Fiddlesticks. You guys are too f'didly'dokely fast.

In all seriousness, I think you guys do a great job herding cats around here.

[soxfan59]

What he's talking about is the same issue I have w/ all fans that boo their home teams. It's not just Cubs fans.

Ah, but Cubs fans are the queens of whiners.  Do you know of anywhere else in baseball where they throw visiting home run balls back, and its condoned by management?  Or where they throw 25-30 baseballs back after a visitor's home run, so as to stop play so they can pick up all the baseballs, and its considered a "cute stunt?"  Where fans commit battery on visiting players in the bullpen (stealing the caps off their heads or hit them on the top of the head), and this is all viewed by the fanbase as "fun?"  Or if a call goes the other teams way, or the visitor gets a key hit or home run to go ahead late in the game, the fans shower the field with garbage so that play is stopped, and this again is viewed as acceptable? 

No two ways about it.  Fans can be boorish in other cities like New York, Boston, or Philadelphia.  But Cubs fans take stupidity and childishness and elevate it to an art form. 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I don't mind if people want to cuss.  I've certainly indulged in it myself on occasion.  I mean to keep this place fairly family-friendly (though I've been doing a poor job lately) and that's why word censors here are optional (you can opt-out of them in your profile settings) but enabled by default.  I just don't want cursing in the thread titles because it's a little more "in your face."  People who might stay out of a thread they don't like probably don't want to have words like that thrown in their face every time they browse new postings.

It's all about balance.  I'm the guy in the unenviable position of trying to make everybody happy

Just let me know if I curse too much around here.  I defaulted to my normal vernacular because of the filters, which means not giving a freak what anyone thinks about foul language.

The Lee Elia tirade is solid gold.  I was going to make a thread about my favorite managerial tirades and post this among others, but I never got around to it.

[arkymark]

Lee Elia is a whiner who never lasted more than two years as a manager anywhere. It is little surprise that a former White Sox player did not do well as a manager at Wrigley Field. f em.

I'm blanking out here.  Which team is it that the successful Cub managers are former players of?  Frank Chance was actually player when he managed.  I'm hard pressed to think of the others.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

l.m.f.a.o.  It's totally fake, but it always cracks me up.

[Obed_Marsh]

I'm blanking out here.  Which team is it that the successful Cub managers are former players of?  Frank Chance was actually player when he managed.  I'm hard pressed to think of the others.

If we're talking World Series successful, only Frank Chance (Chicago Orphans). If we're talking the team actually was competitive at some points: Lou Piniella (Baltimore Orioles), Dusty Baker (Atlanta Braves), Don Baylor (Baltimore Orioles), Don Zimmer (Brooklyn Dodgers), and Jim Fray (O's/Braves/Brewers/Cardinals). There are probably more I skipped but these are the ones I recall. Still a couple of these I had to look up, I don't pretend to have them memorized.

[soxfan59]

I'm blanking out here.  Which team is it that the successful Cub managers are former players of?  Frank Chance was actually player when he managed.  I'm hard pressed to think of the others.

  That is because there are none.  Frank Chance is the only Cubs manager to EVER win a world series. 

[soxfan59]

If we're talking World Series successful, only Frank Chance (Chicago Orphans). If we're talking the team actually was competitive at some points: Lou Piniella (Baltimore Orioles), Dusty Baker (Atlanta Braves), Don Baylor (Baltimore Orioles), Don Zimmer (Brooklyn Dodgers), and Jim Fray (O's/Braves/Brewers/Cardinals). There are probably more I skipped but these are the ones I recall. Still a couple of these I had to look up, I don't pretend to have them memorized.

If we're talking World Series successful, only Frank Chance (Chicago Orphans). If we're talking the team actually was competitive at some points: Lou Piniella (Baltimore Orioles), Dusty Baker (Atlanta Braves), Don Baylor (Baltimore Orioles), Don Zimmer (Brooklyn Dodgers), and Jim Fray (O's/Braves/Brewers/Cardinals). There are probably more I skipped but these are the ones I recall. Still a couple of these I had to look up, I don't pretend to have them memorized.

 

Lou Pinella played a grand total of 4 games (1 official AB) for the O's.  Had a great career with the Royals and Yankees, though. 

Don Baylor was successful as a manager?  His Cubs winning percentage was .459.  He had one winning season and a wild card berth with the Rockies.  Overall, he has a terrible record.

The other guys you list, other than Lou, who has won it all with the Reds and had some pretty impressive teams with Seattle (but no postseason success), what kind of success did they have?  Don Zimmer had some competitive teams in Boston, but he never won anything.  Frey?  Overall, after Lou, he's had the most overall success of the guys you list, but he one a division title with the Royals, and one with the Cubs.  No Pennants.  No World Series. 

I don't even understand where you're going with the argument.  That former White Sox players haven't succeeded as managers elsewhere?  Well, I could make a list of former Sox players that have managed and been successful.  Actually, you can make a list of former Cubs players that became managers and became successful.  If you meant that a former Sox player was doomed to succeed as a manager of the Cubs, well, I have to agree with you wholeheartedly.  But guess what?  The reason why that is true is not because former White Sox players couldn't be successful managers of the Cubs.  But because former players of ANY TEAM could never be successful managers of the Cubs.  QED. 

By the way, Elia really only played for 2 season in the big leagues.  One year riding the bench with the White Sox.  But where did Lee finish his career?  You guessed it.  The Cubs!

And riddle me this.  Has there ever been a manager, particularly since the last time the Cubs have been in the World Series, that has gone on to a successful managerial career AFTER managing the Cubs.  The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Joe McCarthy, but that was long before 1945. 

[Obed_Marsh]

I don't even understand where you're going with the argument.

I'm not certain if it was the rant or what but the Cubs fans I know cannot stand Lee Elia. Most of what I've heard about him was attributed. I was 11 in 1983 and paid more attention to the players and more or less ignored the managers.

The key phrase was "competitive at some points". Each of the ones I listed had some notable moments.  Heck look at this Wikipedia page below, managers I listed were around for most if not all of the key moments highlighted for recent history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Cubs

I'm not going to debate the "how much winning is winning" argument again. I enjoy watching when the team is doing better than they have before, when they are playing for something and not just mailing it in or playing the spoiler. This happens even with the Cubs.

I did the best I could with quickly attributing Managers to teams. If some of it was wrong, so be it, and thanks for correcting it.

White Sox and Cubs don't mix. Fans. Players. The whole thing. Taking a former White Sox player and making him Manager of the Cubs seems like a dumb idea. I've heard him bashed for this but did not know he had such a short stint with the White Sox. It's best for these teams to just ignore each other and get back to enjoying the game. This is why up until this point I have ignored any Cubs bashing from you Soxfan. I accept it as a given and take it with a grain of salt.

In the end this is a Nationals board and that is why I am here. I imagine its the same for others.

[soxfan59]

I'm not certain if it was the rant or what but the Cubs fans I know cannot stand Lee Elia. Most of what I've heard about him was attributed. I was 11 in 1983 and paid more attention to the players and more or less ignored the managers.

I did the best I could with quickly attributing Managers to teams. If some of it was wrong, so be it, and thanks for correcting it.

White Sox and Cubs don't mix. Fans. Players. The whole thing. Taking a former White Sox player and making him Manager of the Cubs seems like a dumb idea. I've heard him bashed for this but did not know he had such a short stint with the White Sox. It's best for these teams to just ignore each other and get back to enjoying the game. This is why up until this point I have ignored any Cubs bashing from you Soxfan. I accept it as a given and take it with a grain of salt.

In the end this is a Nationals board and that is why I am here. I imagine its the same for others.

Lee Elia is hated by Cubs fans because he was inept, and his rant hit the hot button issues of what Cubs fans truly are. 

Yes, its true that Cubs and Sox don't mix.  But I will say this -- White Sox fans usually don't make a blip on the radar in the minds (or fan forums) of other MLB teams.  But Cub fans are universally viewed as shallow, petty, uninformed, or trendy/bandwagon jumpers, or a combination of all of these.  The 4 or 5 seperate threads devoted to such matters on this message board alone. 

Indeed, this is a board devoted to the Nats.  That's why Cub bashing is easier here.  Not as much whining over it.  I will admit that my "bashing" borders on obsessive and is certainly excessive.  But I come by it honestly.  I certainly mean nothing personal by it, as I have many friends who are Cubs fans.  Many of them, at least as far as their baseball saavy is concerned, fit into either the shallow, petty, uninformed, or trendy categories.  There is a rare breed of Cubs fan, though, who actually cares about baseball, and they actually hate what's happened to the team, and the atmosphere at Wrigley Field.  They're overjoyed over the concept of the club competeing, but as one buddy of mine said, "where were these people in 1974?"  The Cubs are a media production, not a baseball team.  Ah well, there I go again.  I'm sorry.  If my axe-grining offends people, I will back down.  I am really interested in baseball fellowship here.  Its why I like the Nats.  A new team, with a fresh start.  Gotta love it. 

[tomterp]

Soxfan, did you notice that Northern Virginia based Mars company has made a tender offer for Wrigley (the chewing gum company, not the field)?

I was wondering if that might have any impact on the potential naming rights issue re: Wrigley field.

[Obed_Marsh]

If my axe-grining offends people, I will back down.  I am really interested in baseball fellowship here.  Its why I like the Nats.  A new team, with a fresh start.  Gotta love it. 

No apologies necessary.

I've don't take the comments about the Cubs and Cubs fans personally. I differentiate myself from the team and the bleacher bums.

I grew up a Cubs fan in a family of Cubs fans. It sticks with you.

The Cubs fans I know don’t condone the trash throwing, stealing caps, or throwing things into the bullpen, or a lot of the other outlandish behavior. That said, the throwing one ball back onto the field doesn’t bother me at all.

I enjoy the game and follow the Nats, than the Cubs, and while the Cubs have some crazy people wearing Cubs shirts not every Cubs fan is a “hallow, petty, uninformed, or trendy/bandwagon jumpers, or a combination of all of these”. Sounds like you know a few aren't the stereotype as well.

In my own way, there I go again.

I'm here for Nationals and the baseball fellowship aspect of it myself so as far as I'm concerned we can simply acknowledge we differ regarding the Cubs and move on.

[soxfan59]

Soxfan, did you notice that Northern Virginia based Mars company has made a tender offer for Wrigley (the chewing gum company, not the field)?

I was wondering if that might have any impact on the potential naming rights issue re: Wrigley field.

I don't think it has any impact, unless the Mars people want to buy the naming rights themselves.  The Wrigley family and the Wrigley Gum Co. have had nothing to do with the Cubs since the Chicago Tribune bought the team  George Zell, the new owner of the Tribune (and a partial owner of the White Sox, by the way) intends to sell the Cubs within a year if MLB approves, and he finds a buyer. 

The issue with naming rights for Wrigley Field is interesting.  Originally, Zell wanted to either keep Wrigley Field and lease it to the Cubs, or sell it separately.  Wirgley Field is going to require so much repair and upgrading (the rumor is they will have to shut it down for at least a year, maybe two, the way the Yankees did it with Yankee stadium back in the mid 70s.) that Zell doesn't want the Tribune to keep it and pay for those upgrades, and it makes the separate sale of the park a lot bleaker.  There has been a call to sell it to the Illinois Sports Stadium Authority (the state agency that owns US Cellular Field and leases it to the White Sox), but the state doesn't want to buy it, and doesn't have the funds to buy it, or make the repairs.  Its a stalemate.  Part of the reason a big bucks naming-rights contract looks so good to the current owners is it could help pay for those renovations.   

There has been a hue and cry from the Cubbie faithful here in Chicago that there can't be any naming rights sold -- there's even an on-line campaign and petition to "Keep it Wrigley."  Never mind that the Cubs were one of the first teams to name thier park after something other then the address it was at or the team name, and that the Wrigley family -- gum company connection made the name a de facto corporate sponsor for decades.  But they may not have a choice. 

Maybe it will become "Mars Park at Wrigley Field" or something.  I was pulling for Wyeth Pharmaceuticals to buy the naming rights, and connect it to one of its more popular products -- and Wrigley Field becomes "Preparation H Park."

[tomterp]

Maybe it will become "Mars Park at Wrigley Field" or something. 

This could be a chance to really build brand recognition for their "Snickers" candy bar.