Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 172826 times)

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Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #575: October 19, 2012, 05:59:51 PM »
Quote
Jon Heyman‏@JonHeymanCBS
#yankees will pick up the $13M option on granderson's deal for 2013. easy call there, despite postseason struggles.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #576: October 19, 2012, 06:08:43 PM »
I know Ellsbury was amazing in 2011, but look at all his other seasons. He isn't the type of player any organization should be giving up top prospects for. There are four better free agent centerfielders on the market.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #577: October 19, 2012, 06:24:13 PM »
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/19/heyman-yankees-have-no-interest-in-retaining-nick-swisher/

Heyman: Yankees have no interest in retaining Nick Swisher

According to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com, the Yankees will make free-agent-to-be Nick Swisher a qualifying offer this winter, but they have “no interest” in re-signing him to a multiyear deal.

The qualifying offer, which would be worth about $13.5 million for 2013, would secure the Yankees a draft pick if Swisher leaves as a free agent. Swisher could opt to accept the one-year deal, but since he’s likely to receive mulityear offers as a free agent, that’s a long shot.

...

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #578: October 19, 2012, 06:25:33 PM »
I know Ellsbury was amazing in 2011, but look at all his other seasons. He isn't the type of player any organization should be giving up top prospects for. There are four better free agent centerfielders on the market.

I agree - I wouldn't trade top prospects for him.  Especially given his upcoming free agency.

But he'd fit well here if he could stay healthy.  Doesn't strike out a ton and plays good CF defense. 

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #579: October 19, 2012, 06:26:49 PM »
So the Yanks, if they get rid of Swisher, probably won't be trading Gardner.  Too bad.

Offline houston-nat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #580: October 19, 2012, 07:12:02 PM »
Keep Storen then? Why do you need a "closer"? Why not just use the best pitcher for the situation that can handle that pressure?

Might be a baseball tradition I don't understand.

You're right, actually. A lot of saber/math geek type guys are anti-closer and I am too. I understand the argument that knowing you have your closer for the 9th inning can help a manager deal with the 7th and 8th, but I think it's more sensible to use your best pitcher when you need it the most.

Example: it's the 7th, the other team has two baserunners with no outs, and the game is tied. This is a place where you should use your best reliever. The odds of an even more critical situation arising in the 9th has to be pretty small. Would I bring on Craig Kimbrel in the 7th, 1-1 game, no outs, runners on 2B and 3B? Hell yes I would. I'd let him pitch out of the jam, because his ability to strike out 50% of all batters is more valuable there than with no runners on base.

Unfortunately, the closer tradition is here to stay because relievers are basically paid off how many saves they get (see Papelbon) and because saves are a stat. Like, it's nice for a guy like Christian Garcia to get some wins, but other than wins and ERA there's no way for the average (!) baseball fan to point at Christian Garcia and say, "he's an awesome reliever, look at this stat," the same way you can point at someone and say "he had 50 saves this year."

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #581: October 19, 2012, 07:24:00 PM »
counter example, every team that has tried a closer by committee based on what the math says should work

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #582: October 19, 2012, 09:16:08 PM »
All this Ellsbury talk is getting my mind going.  Morse, Clippard and Brown probably get the talks started.  He'd be the perfect fit (unless by some magic way the Nats can get Gardner) and be awesome in CF.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #583: October 19, 2012, 09:20:30 PM »
All this Ellsbury talk is getting my mind going.  Morse, Clippard and Brown probably get the talks started.  He'd be the perfect fit (unless by some magic way the Nats can get Gardner) and be awesome in CF.

i would think the sox would want longer term pieces in return.  Maybe moore over Morse and then add a throw in like eury? 

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #584: October 19, 2012, 10:30:13 PM »
i would think the sox would want longer term pieces in return.  Maybe moore over Morse and then add a throw in like eury?

They probably would, but we aren't talking a small market team here.  The Sox have money to spend, and they will do it trying to land pitching and power since moving A-Gone.  Moore is more of a prospect than Morse, and I don't think the Sox want to be irrelevant.  I don't see them as a re-building team when they have guys like Pedroia, Ortiz, Lester, and Bucholz.  They need up the middle talent, someone at 1st and bullpen help.

It probably won't happen and Ellsbury walks after next year.  Nats are probably better off with either B.J. Upton or Bourn, and I'd go no to Bourn.  Unless the Nats want to trade prospects that they really don't have for someone like Parra or potentially in this case Ellsbury if the Sox decide to go into rebuild mode, then I suspect it's FA or go into next season with a Harper, Werth and one more "Already a Nat" outfield.  That could be Morse, Moore, Bernadina, or Brown depending on what happens with LaRoche.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #585: October 19, 2012, 10:44:12 PM »
what about the 2013 bullpen?  I doubt burnett's coming back due to his leftyness and how in-demand quality lefties are.  Clippard is in the midst of trade speculation.  michael gonzalez is a free agent.  Gorz could be non-tendered.  I would go as far as to say that the only gauranteed bullpen spots next year are storen, garcia, and stammen.  I really do think clip will get traded.  I remember last year we were interested in madson so why not this year?  he'd be cheaper after all.  All of our lefties are questionable when it comes to their return so looking at the free agent market I'd say the only two lefties that look decent are affeldt and J.P. Howell.  I'd be fine with either.  I bet the royals would be willing to trade some of their young stud relievers for pieces.  kelvin Herrera, Tim Collins, Aaron Crow, and Joakim Soria could all be options from them.

Offline BigMeech

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #586: October 19, 2012, 11:39:38 PM »
I'd be thrilled with getting any one of those four Royal relievers you just mentioned.

Offline Vega

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #587: October 19, 2012, 11:48:42 PM »
Soira is not going to get his option picked up, so he'll hit free agency. I doubt that KC would want anything we can give though. They need major league ready starting pitchers, and we don't really have any to offer from what I know about the farm system. They might give up one for Lombo though. They need a second baseman.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #588: October 20, 2012, 12:16:05 AM »
I'd take Soria over Madson because he will probably be cheaper.  I'd take him also because if he can bounce back from this year, you get Joakim freakING Soria!

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #589: October 20, 2012, 12:21:56 AM »
Also, I don't think Joel Zumaya has officially retired yet.  He is only 28 next season and could be had REALLY cheap.  I'd say sign him to a minor league contract with an invite to spring training and if he isn't hurt, he could take the H-Rod stupid fast throwing spot.  Plus he actually can command his pitches.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #590: October 20, 2012, 08:53:59 AM »
I don't think Clippard will get traded. Our bullpen was far from solid this year, and our lineup is pretty darn good without a major shakeup. I guess a lot hinges on the LaRoche negotiations.

I wonder how many bolts Morse could hit in Fenway, though.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #591: October 20, 2012, 10:22:04 AM »
Brian wilson could be a non tender candidate coming off of Tommy John.  He'd be owed around $8mm and I'm not sure the giants will want to pay that.  Could be a nice pick up with playoff experience, closing experience, good stuff, and a great personality

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #592: October 20, 2012, 10:24:29 AM »
Brian wilson could be a non tender candidate coming off of Tommy John.  He'd be owed around $8mm and I'm not sure the giants will want to pay that.  Could be a nice pick up with playoff experience, closing experience, good stuff, and a great personality

No comment on the great personality, but yeah, I'd take him if he'd come here in a setup role.  He or Madson or Soria would be great.  Even Valverde could be useful.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #593: October 20, 2012, 10:33:11 AM »
I guess Denard Span could be had from the Twins, but his concussion issues make me nervous.  Maybe Ben Revere?  Doesn't walk much but doesn't strike out either.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #594: October 20, 2012, 10:33:12 AM »
Valverde would have to come insanely cheap for me to be ok with that

Offline Evolution33

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #595: October 20, 2012, 11:19:28 AM »
My off-season targets would be.

OF Plan A: Alex Gordon, B: Michael Bourn, C: Justin Upton, D: Angel Pagan, E: BJ Upton

SP Plan A: Greinke, B: Haren, C: Marcum, D: Sanchez, E: Peavy

RP just sign Afeldt, Madsen, and Soria. 

Offline BigMeech

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #596: October 20, 2012, 11:24:04 AM »
My off-season targets would be.

OF Plan A: Alex Gordon, B: Michael Bourn, C: Justin Upton, D: Angel Pagan, E: BJ Upton

SP Plan A: Greinke, B: Haren, C: Marcum, D: Sanchez, E: Peavy

RP just sign Afeldt, Madsen, and Soria.

I wholeheartedly endorse this, especially the RP section.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #597: October 20, 2012, 11:29:34 AM »
What do you think it would take to get Gordon from the Royals?  A lot, I would imagine.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #598: October 20, 2012, 11:35:18 AM »
What do you think it would take to get Gordon from the Royals?  A lot, I would imagine.

Yes it would.  I'd love to see him in DC, but it would be very expensive to make that happen.  He's signed to a pretty reasonable deal through '15 with a team option for '16 and the Royals still think they can be competitive in the next year or two, which they can be if they can find some pitching.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #599: October 20, 2012, 11:42:17 AM »
What do you think it would take to get Gordon from the Royals?  A lot, I would imagine.

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