Author Topic: Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?  (Read 2460 times)

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Topic Start: August 19, 2006, 02:48:17 PM »
Consigning John Patterson to the trash heap might be a little premature.   First of all, is he really ?injury prone??  Certainly he has had injuries, as most players do, but in 9 years in pro baseball prior to this season, he has had 2 major injuries and 2 minor ones.  I have researched his career about as thoroughly as one can using just the Internet, and I found one injury (a back problem, I believe) that kept him from pitching in a minor league all-star game in 1998;  Tommy John surgery in May, 2000  - major injury - he did not pitch again until May 2001 and spent the rest of that year rehabbing in A, AA, and AAA;  in April 2004 with the Expos, his back foot slipped on the mound in San Diego, he tore his right groin muscle and was out for 2 ? months - major injury;  in May, 2005, while being given injections in treatment for back spasms, he became faint and nauseated and was given oxygen and an IV was put in his RIGHT wrist, causing the wrist to become numb.  He was then put on the 15 day DL, retroactive to his last start, came off on schedule, and that was his only injury in 2005.  Does this add up to ?injury prone??  Possibly, but compare this to Nick Johnson.  ?The 2006 season marks the first time since 1999 that Nationals first baseman Nick Johnson hasn?t been placed on the disabled list, and he is having one of his better seasons with the bat...?  There are plenty of players who have a worse injury history than Patterson and their teams are not talking of ?dumping? them.

As far as being unreliable, only the 2 major injuries have kept Patterson from progressing each year as he climbed the ladder from the minors to the major leagues. In 1997, with South Bend - low A - he appeared in 18 games and pitched 78 innings; 1998 High Desert - high A, 25 games and 127 innings; 1999 he started with El Paso - AA, and was promoted to Tucson - AAA- 25 games and 130 innings.  In between El Paso and Tucson he pitched in the Pan American Games, registering 1 win and 1 no decision, and after the season, pitched in the Arizona Fall League; In 2000 and 2001 he was sidetracked by Tommy John surgery and only pitched 20 games and 92 innings; 2002 he started the season in Tucson, and was brought up to pitch for the Diamondbacks in July when Rick Helling was on the DL.  His first appearance was a solid start for which he received a no decision, his first major league win came on July 24, against San Diego, then Helling returned from the DL and he was sent back to Tucson, but was called up again in September.  His totals for that season, 26 games, 142 innings pitched;  2003 was spent see-sawing between Tucson and the D-backs, 34 games 164 innings pitched; 2004 he was traded to the Expos and, due to the groin injury, pitched 19 games and 98 innings.  He also played winter ball; 2005, 31 games started, 198 innings pitched. If you look at the stats, you will see that he pitched much better than his 9 - 7 record would indicate.  He had 15 no decisions in 31 starts and he - not the presumed ace Livan Hernandez - was the Nats most consistent starter during most of the season.  

As for this year, some of you seem to blame Patterson because he has had only 8 starts this season.  His arm has hurt ever since the end of spring training - yes, even during the 4 starts he made before going on the DL and the 4 starts he made after coming off the DL.  He has played with pain all season, hoping that he could pitch through it.  If anyone should be blamed for this fiasco, it is the Nationals medical staff who mis-diagnosed the injury from the very beginning, stating that it was a muscle problem and surgery was not required - rest was the answer.  Had  the tests been given and the correct diagnosis made in April, he could have been  100% early in June and the story for the Nationals and John Patterson might have been very different by now.

We live in a ?throw away? society, and when something doesn?t work, we throw it out and get another. However, I think it would be foolish indeed to throw away John Patterson?s great talent  without ever giving him a real chance.

Offline 2k6nats

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #1: August 19, 2006, 02:50:15 PM »
Agreed.

Offline ColtonWillems

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #2: August 19, 2006, 03:55:10 PM »
:clap:  :worship:  :clap:

Offline JMW IV

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Re: Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #3: August 19, 2006, 04:02:16 PM »
Quote from: "thunderstrucknatsfan"
Consigning John Patterson to the trash heap might be a little premature.   First of all, is he really “injury prone”?  Certainly he has had injuries, as most players do, but in 9 years in pro baseball prior to this season, he has had 2 major injuries and 2 minor ones.  I have researched his career about as thoroughly as one can using just the Internet, and I found one injury (a back problem, I believe) that kept him from pitching in a minor league all-star game in 1998;  Tommy John surgery in May, 2000  - major injury - he did not pitch again until May 2001 and spent the rest of that year rehabbing in A, AA, and AAA;  in April 2004 with the Expos, his back foot slipped on the mound in San Diego, he tore his right groin muscle and was out for 2 ? months - major injury;  in May, 2005, while being given injections in treatment for back spasms, he became faint and nauseated and was given oxygen and an IV was put in his RIGHT wrist, causing the wrist to become numb.  He was then put on the 15 day DL, retroactive to his last start, came off on schedule, and that was his only injury in 2005.  Does this add up to “injury prone”?  Possibly, but compare this to Nick Johnson.  â€œThe 2006 season marks the first time since 1999 that Nationals first baseman Nick Johnson hasn’t been placed on the disabled list, and he is having one of his better seasons with the bat...”  There are plenty of players who have a worse injury history than Patterson and their teams are not talking of “dumping” them.

As far as being unreliable, only the 2 major injuries have kept Patterson from progressing each year as he climbed the ladder from the minors to the major leagues. In 1997, with South Bend - low A - he appeared in 18 games and pitched 78 innings; 1998 High Desert - high A, 25 games and 127 innings; 1999 he started with El Paso - AA, and was promoted to Tucson - AAA- 25 games and 130 innings.  In between El Paso and Tucson he pitched in the Pan American Games, registering 1 win and 1 no decision, and after the season, pitched in the Arizona Fall League; In 2000 and 2001 he was sidetracked by Tommy John surgery and only pitched 20 games and 92 innings; 2002 he started the season in Tucson, and was brought up to pitch for the Diamondbacks in July when Rick Helling was on the DL.  His first appearance was a solid start for which he received a no decision, his first major league win came on July 24, against San Diego, then Helling returned from the DL and he was sent back to Tucson, but was called up again in September.  His totals for that season, 26 games, 142 innings pitched;  2003 was spent see-sawing between Tucson and the D-backs, 34 games 164 innings pitched; 2004 he was traded to the Expos and, due to the groin injury, pitched 19 games and 98 innings.  He also played winter ball; 2005, 31 games started, 198 innings pitched. If you look at the stats, you will see that he pitched much better than his 9 - 7 record would indicate.  He had 15 no decisions in 31 starts and he - not the presumed ace Livan Hernandez - was the Nats most consistent starter during most of the season.  

As for this year, some of you seem to blame Patterson because he has had only 8 starts this season.  His arm has hurt ever since the end of spring training - yes, even during the 4 starts he made before going on the DL and the 4 starts he made after coming off the DL.  He has played with pain all season, hoping that he could pitch through it.  If anyone should be blamed for this fiasco, it is the Nationals medical staff who mis-diagnosed the injury from the very beginning, stating that it was a muscle problem and surgery was not required - rest was the answer.  Had  the tests been given and the correct diagnosis made in April, he could have been  100% early in June and the story for the Nationals and John Patterson might have been very different by now.

We live in a “throw away” society, and when something doesn’t work, we throw it out and get another. However, I think it would be foolish indeed to throw away John Patterson’s great talent  without ever giving him a real chance.



Offline Ericas Nats

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #4: August 19, 2006, 06:14:43 PM »
U ROCK

Offline 2k6nats

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #5: August 19, 2006, 06:16:53 PM »
Haha, what a slam dunk post by thunderstrucknatsfan!

Online The Chief

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #6: August 19, 2006, 07:11:25 PM »
Why does our medical staff seem to suck so much, anyway?

Offline 2k6nats

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #7: August 19, 2006, 07:42:51 PM »
Quote from: "The Chief"
Why does our medical staff seem to suck so much, anyway?


It does seem that way, doesnt it?

Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #8: August 20, 2006, 08:34:19 AM »
Oh Christ, thank God someone understands and realizes this.  I posted a "Trade John Patterson?" thread last week and I didn't get as much agreement as this.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #9: August 21, 2006, 10:04:22 AM »
NOLD, your avatar almost made me spray coffee all over my monitor  :lol:

Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #10: August 21, 2006, 10:13:16 AM »
Quote from: "Ali the Baseball Cat"
NOLD, your avatar almost made me spray coffee all over my monitor  :lol:


:lol:  :wink:

Offline Dave B

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #11: August 21, 2006, 10:41:13 AM »
has anyone even suggested dumping patterson

KraziJoe

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #12: August 21, 2006, 11:00:41 AM »
I would dump him. Or at least try to trade him.
He has had Tommy JOhn surgery, which is hard as heck to come back from and now had surgery on his right arm again to try to figure out what the problem is...Having surgery on your pitching arm is not the best way to keep a job...

As for Nick, well, he is not a pitcher...Even though Nick had been on the DL a lot he can still play. If a pitcher loses his arm he is done, if a hitter loses some speed or power or something else, he can still play...

Offline 2k6nats

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #13: August 21, 2006, 11:08:07 AM »
Quote from: "Dave B"
has anyone even suggested dumping patterson


Yep, nats2playoffs if I remember correctly.

Bad idea.

Offline Dave B

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #14: August 21, 2006, 11:44:24 AM »
i dont think that movement gained any momentum.  but saying "dont get rid of him" repeatedly raises the questions

Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #15: August 21, 2006, 12:38:50 PM »
Quote from: "Dave B"
i dont think that movement gained any momentum.  but saying "dont get rid of him" repeatedly raises the questions


No one is saying "never" trade him.  Its just at this juncture with the horrid starting pitching that we have and Patterson actually being one of the more effective pitchers we have had (when healthy) I think it would be very premature to just throw away a possible big gun.  He has from now until the offseason to get healthy.  This is his time and his big chance.  Let him have it.

But didn't Ayala have Tommy John?  Why hasn't anyone gotten on his case?

Offline 2k6nats

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #16: August 21, 2006, 12:42:27 PM »
Quote from: "Nat of the LivingDead"
Quote from: "Dave B"
i dont think that movement gained any momentum.  but saying "dont get rid of him" repeatedly raises the questions


No one is saying "never" trade him.  Its just at this juncture with the horrid starting pitching that we have and Patterson actually being one of the more effective pitchers we have had (when healthy) I think it would be very premature to just throw away a possible big gun.  He has from now until the offseason to get healthy.  This is his time and his big chance.  Let him have it.

But didn't Ayala have Tommy John?  Why hasn't anyone gotten on his case?


Because he has been a very steady reliever for years.  And we can blame his injury 100% on the WBC.  I was actually watching the Mexico-US game where he got hurt, the Mexican skipper kept him in way too long.

Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #17: August 21, 2006, 02:54:21 PM »
But he has had Tommy John and "apparently" no pitcher has ever had a successful tour of duty after having it according to some.  And now that he has had it, how do we really know he is going to be "steady" for now on?

If we give Ayala the benefit of the doubt, then we have to give Patterson the same.

I think it's high time we stop using the WBC as an excuse.  I am not a fan of the WBC, I think it was an unnecessary contest that blew around a bunch of hot air and overly inflated patriotic egos while putting some extra $$$ in MLB pockets.  That being said, if it didn't happen in the WBC it was obviously going to happen to Ayala in ST or the regular season because he obviously was not keeping fit.  That is his own fault.

I can see where the anger is going by being directed at the WBC but I can no longer stand hearing it used as a feasible excuse.  So if Soriano got hurt in the All-Star game (a worthless contest in itself) then I guess we should close shop on that one too?

Offline Dave B

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Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #18: August 21, 2006, 03:02:19 PM »
Where are all these accusations about people not performing well after tommy john surgery coming from? Some people come back better from it.

Ayala's chance of injury was much greater in the WBC because he was going all out in the middle of march as opposed to april.  Team mexico had no regard for ayala's health after the WBC.

As far as Patterson is concerned he's had a good 3/4 season in his career. He peetered out down the stretch last year.  He didnt get a full year under his belt this year, so it is hard to expect him to be healthy and dominate for a complete season next year. That being said, it is ludicrous to get rid of him because he costs about zero dollars.

Aside from passing comments, who has been lobbying to get rid of Patterson?  The only momentum this issue is getting from is from people saying "keep him".  This is a non-issue

Why Throw Patterson in the Garbage Can?
« Reply #19: August 21, 2006, 03:07:16 PM »