End of the Year Awards

[Air Zimmerman]

Belly or Nook as defensive player of the yr?! I'm gonna be torn. I'll hold off until the season is complete for my votes. Nook or Belly are sure to have 1 more jaw dropping play that could push them ahead.

O ya, R.Z. should have been nominated too.

[ronnynat]

Belly or Nook as defensive player of the yr?! I'm gonna be torn. I'll hold off until the season is complete for my votes. Nook or Belly are sure to have 1 more jaw dropping play that could push them ahead.

O ya, R.Z. should have been nominated too.

Hope that last part was a joke. Zimmerman doesn't deserve any praise for his defensive play this season. He needs some work this offseason defensively...BAD

[spidernat]

Right now I'd say Bergy is pretty close to being a #3, but definitely has upside potential.  Hill is more consistently good, perhaps a #2 would be a fair appraisal right now.  JP was a #1 in 2005, but no telling if he's got that in him ever again.

I buy this 100%. I see Bergmann as a 4 and at best (long shot) a number 3, although I cringe at the thought of trying to be competitive with a guy like Bergmann in the 3rd slot of the rotation. Hill should be a very nice 2. As for JPWH, I don't care what he was 2 years ago, 3 by the time next season rolls around, he belongs in the 15 slot right now in my book (and that's being generous).

[mikehughes]

I buy this 100%. I see Bergmann as a 4 and at best (long shot) a number 3, although I cringe at the thought of trying to be competitive with a guy like Bergmann in the 3rd slot of the rotation. Hill should be a very nice 2. As for JPWH, I don't care what he was 2 years ago, 3 by the time next season rolls around, he belongs in the 15 slot right now in my book (and that's being generous).

JP dosent belong in the league, hes a waste of space.
He cant stay healthy for a month

[Air Zimmerman]

Hope that last part was a joke. Zimmerman doesn't deserve any praise for his defensive play this season. He needs some work this offseason defensively...BAD

Zimmerman saves a lot more runs than he gives up. Thats all that needs to be said.

[spidernat]

Zimmerman saves a lot more runs than he gives up. Thats all that needs to be said.

Not true.

[ronnynat]

Zimmerman saves a lot more runs than he gives up. Thats all that needs to be said.

If you mean by him not throwing errors every time he throws to first, which might end up being runs, then that's absolutely true

He'd have a good 500 errors if he didn't make those fundamental throws and save those runs. You're right, he's the Defensive POY. lol

Come on! I like him, too, but even Zimmerman himself would say he's near the bottom of the pool of 3B this season..defensively.

[natsdad]

Hitter
Da Meat Hook

Starter
Redding

Reliever
Rausch

Coach
Corrales

Defensive
Kearns

Rookie
Flores

New Additon
Beltran

MVP
Zimmerman

[ronnynat]

Beltran = Belliard, right?

[UMDNats]

Zimmerman saves a lot more runs than he gives up. Thats all that needs to be said.

FALSE.

He has been accountable for a lot of runs this year with his costly errors.


You continue to surprise me. Maybe the next thing I read from you will be "Nook Logan for best hitter"

[Air Zimmerman]

Hitter Of The Year: Ronnie Belliard

Starter of the Year: Shawn Hill

Reliever of the Year: Jesus Colome

Coach of the Year: Manny Acta

New Addition of the Year: Ronnie Belliard

Rookie Of The Year: Jesus Flores

MVP: Ryan Zimmerman

Defensive Player Of The Year: Ronnie Belliard (Sorry Nook). Ronnie's behind the back pass is the difference maker. His barehanded grab of Guzman's tailing flip to second was incredible too. I think it's just that theres not a ball Nook can't get to. So he makes every play look routine.

Ya, i said I was going to wait until the season was over but I couldn't resist.

p.s I tried to be as non bias as possible!

[spidernat]

Hitter Of The Year: Ronnie Belliard

Starter of the Year: Shawn Hill

Reliever of the Year: Jesus Colome

New Addition of the Year: Ronnie Belliard

Defensive Player Of The Year: Ronnie Belliard (Sorry Nook).

p.s I tried to be as non bias as possible!

[natsfan1a]

Now if they could only get Ronnie to toss a few innings in the next few weeks...

[tomterp]

FALSE.

He has been accountable for a lot of runs this year with his costly errors.


You continue to surprise me. Maybe the next thing I read from you will be "Nook Logan for best hitter"

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Zimmerman's defense.  The error stat is one of the worst in terms of conveying meaningful information, right down there with RBI's and average at the bottom.  What's wrong with errors?  All other factors being equal, the guy who gets to the most balls will have the most errors, and yet that player would be your best defender.  Take player A and Player B.  Both players have a 5% error rate, but player A fields 500 balls, and player B fields 400 balls.  Player A will have 25 errors vs. 20 for Player B, but A fielded 475 successfully while B fielded 380 successfully. 

So the problem with errors, is, it focusses on a very narrow subset of overall fielding.  Zimmerman leads all third basemen in chances.  He's got phenomenal range.  Sure, the errors are costly at times, but he's making errors on plays that other guys don't even get to.  You simply can't focus on a small subset of performance and ignore the largest, most important dimensions.

[spidernat]

So the problem with errors, is, it focusses on a very narrow subset of overall fielding.  Zimmerman leads all third basemen in chances.  He's got phenomenal range.  Sure, the errors are costly at times, but he's making errors on plays that other guys don't even get to.  You simply can't focus on a small subset of performance and ignore the largest, most important dimensions.

While it may be true that RZ gets to more grounders because of his range, most of his errors have come on routine plays because of his throws. The thing I (and possibly Nats19) am objecting to is the illusion that Zimmerman saves more runs because of his 'web gems' than he has given up with his errors.

In fact it would be just as valid to say that the 'web gem' is one of the worst ways of conveying meaningful information because if focuses on a very small subset of fielding and you simply can't focus on a small subset of performance and ignore the largest, most important dimensions.

[tomterp]

While it may be true that RZ gets to more grounders because of his range, most of his errors have come on routine plays because of his throws. The thing I (and possibly Nats19) am objecting to is the illusion that Zimmerman saves more runs because of his 'web gems' than he has given up with his errors.

In fact it would be just as valid to say that the 'web gem' is one of the worst ways of conveying meaningful information because if focuses on a very small subset of fielding and you simply can't focus on a small subset of performance and ignore the largest, most important dimensions.

Oh, I totally agree.  Web gems are fun, but not especially meaningful except that they do represent the extreme end of Zimmerman's range, which is excellent to start with.  But they are not a very meaningful set of data.  And of course Zimmerman's errors are sometimes costly.  Anybody's are.  But sometimes a ball is hit cleanly past a 3rd baseman - I saw this happen to Scot Rolen during the series here, and everyone just accepts it as a clean hit.  But I saw Zimmerman get to the ball on a virtually identical play same series.  Rolen has fewer errors, but Zimmerman gets to a lot more balls.  Who is better?  Gotta take it all in to account.

[spidernat]

I personally believe that Rolen, even in his best days, could not make some of the plays RZ has made in the early stages of his career. In time RZ will clearly have no equal at the hot corner but he has some ways to go before that can be said without argument. Of course some people are seduced by the occasional great play (as well as the fact that he is a National) and have already crowned him the best 3B or the next in line for a string of gold gloves. I have been greatly disappointed in his defense this year but we probably expect way more from him than we do any other above average 3B. I believe his throwing problems are fixable and will get corrected. I do know that while his web gems have saved a single or a double from time to time (and subsequently a run here and there), his errors have been very costly and have led to big innings amounting to runs and losses.

[CALSGR8]

From the play I saw last night where no runs scored and Zimmerman thru to second from 1/2 way on his but to get the lead runner and quick enough for the fielder at second to throw to first for the double play!   

[natsdad]

I was only dreaming of Beltran in CF . . . . . .

[Roarin Storen]

WTF did I miss something, where is Lannan for ROY?

[UMDNats]

WTF did I miss something, where is Lannan for ROY?

I have a hard time giving it to him - he wasn't up here for long. I really considered it, but I figured he didn't even get close to the innings that Chico and Flores contributed. In my eyes he's a good prospect and looked pretty good in his short time up here.

[ronnynat]

WTF did I miss something, where is Lannan for ROY?

Yeah, you're definitely missing something.