Ryan Church speaks out in his defense

[Nat of the Living Dead]

If it is truly legit, I believe him and agree with him.  No other Nats player has gotten as much crap from media and fans than Church and unfairly too.  It sickens me that a rent-a-player who walks out on his team, lies, and jumps ship as soon as he can like ($0)rian0 can get such a strong following from Nat fans but yet Church can't catch a break.

People need to drop that religious BS.  It was taken out of context by some hack journalist to begin with and he has every right to ask a question he might really not know the answer to.  Not everyone is a bible thumper.

Get out there and do your stuff, Church.  Go for it and shove it in the critics faces.

When Church goes 40-40-40, I'll like him, until then never use Soriano and Church in the same sentence again, unless we are talking about players the nats should've traded at last years deadline.

Wrong.  I have every dam*ed right to mention and compare ($0)rian0 and Church.  While they certainly have a different level of play, one cannot deny who has more loyalty to his team than to himself or the all mighty dollar.

($0)rian0 was rent-a-player scum and trash and I never relented my thoughts about how he would jump ship as soon as he can and his "I love DC' was blow.  His Majesty used DC, sucked up the PR, made himself look good, and then booted us to the curb when he didn't need us anymore.

Church?  Runs into a wall catching a ball, gets accused of being some religious bigot, constantly smeared by certain fans and media, Ladsen has had a hard on going after Church, falls ill with the flu for several weeks, gets injured, gets crapped on by FR, gets crap for not going to play Mexican Ball, and he is STILL HERE.  I am amazed he hasn't outright asked for trade already.  Church not a team player?  Not a Nat?  

Church has been and is way more a Nat than Chicago-loving hyena boy could've pretended to be.

Solid points, but I'd take one year of Sorianos money loving 40-40-40 over Churchs nagging and complaining any day of the week.

He has spoken out once against his critics and considering the amount of unwarranted crap they give him, he is allowed to.

($0)rian0's 40-40-40 did nothing for us.  It was completely worthless to us.

[ColtonWillems]

If it is truly legit, I believe him and agree with him.  No other Nats player has gotten as much crap from media and fans than Church and unfairly too.  It sickens me that a rent-a-player who walks out on his team, lies, and jumps ship as soon as he can like ($0)rian0 can get such a strong following from Nat fans but yet Church can't catch a break.

People need to drop that religious BS.  It was taken out of context by some hack journalist to begin with and he has every right to ask a question he might really not know the answer to.  Not everyone is a bible thumper.

Get out there and do your stuff, Church.  Go for it and shove it in the critics faces.

When Church goes 40-40-40, I'll like him, until then never use Soriano and Church in the same sentence again, unless we are talking about players the nats should've traded at last years deadline.

Wrong.  I have every dam*ed right to mention and compare ($0)rian0 and Church.  While they certainly have a different level of play, one cannot deny who has more loyalty to his team than to himself or the all mighty dollar.

($0)rian0 was rent-a-player scum and trash and I never relented my thoughts about how he would jump ship as soon as he can and his "I love DC' was blow.  His Majesty used DC, sucked up the PR, made himself look good, and then booted us to the curb when he didn't need us anymore.

Church?  Runs into a wall catching a ball, gets accused of being some religious bigot, constantly smeared by certain fans and media, Ladsen has had a hard on going after Church, falls ill with the flu for several weeks, gets injured, gets crapped on by FR, gets crap for not going to play Mexican Ball, and he is STILL HERE.  I am amazed he hasn't outright asked for trade already.  Church not a team player?  Not a Nat?  

Church has been and is way more a Nat than Chicago-loving hyena boy could've pretended to be.

Solid points, but I'd take one year of Sorianos money loving 40-40-40 over Churchs nagging and complaining any day of the week.

He has spoken out once against his critics and considering the amount of unwarranted crap they give him, he is allowed to.

($0)rian0's 40-40-40 did nothing for us.  It was completely worthless to us.

lol why are we always getting into arguements NotL? Take Soriano out of the lineup and put Church there, and you'll see just how "worthless" Soriano was  

Again, I'm a fan of Church's potential. So please don't turn me into Church hater no. 1 because I am not.

[Dave B]

Back when Frank Cruz appeared...

What ever happened to that guy? He must have gotten kicked out of Suite Bowden at the DR camp, and no longer have internet access.  I guess Emsailyn moved in and Frank Felix got thrown back in with the general population

[Kenz aFan]

Hiller20
Welcome to the Nationals Fan Forum. I think you'll find that although not 100% in accordance, that fans can be fairly mellow, at least around here, even me, (in booming deep voice) "Believe it, or Not!"  :wink:

Well even though Ken still is a skeptic, and completely understandable why I suppose

Well, I'm not about to ask you to contact Ryan and have him send me a pic of him holding up a sign that reads, "Ken = Jerk" so we'll have to go with the option of you being another fan in the forum who has his own opinions. That's what forums are all about.

With that, I want to wish everyone a...
MERRY CHRISTMAS

[Nat of the Living Dead]

If it is truly legit, I believe him and agree with him.  No other Nats player has gotten as much crap from media and fans than Church and unfairly too.  It sickens me that a rent-a-player who walks out on his team, lies, and jumps ship as soon as he can like ($0)rian0 can get such a strong following from Nat fans but yet Church can't catch a break.

People need to drop that religious BS.  It was taken out of context by some hack journalist to begin with and he has every right to ask a question he might really not know the answer to.  Not everyone is a bible thumper.

Get out there and do your stuff, Church.  Go for it and shove it in the critics faces.

When Church goes 40-40-40, I'll like him, until then never use Soriano and Church in the same sentence again, unless we are talking about players the nats should've traded at last years deadline.

Wrong.  I have every dam*ed right to mention and compare ($0)rian0 and Church.  While they certainly have a different level of play, one cannot deny who has more loyalty to his team than to himself or the all mighty dollar.

($0)rian0 was rent-a-player scum and trash and I never relented my thoughts about how he would jump ship as soon as he can and his "I love DC' was blow.  His Majesty used DC, sucked up the PR, made himself look good, and then booted us to the curb when he didn't need us anymore.

Church?  Runs into a wall catching a ball, gets accused of being some religious bigot, constantly smeared by certain fans and media, Ladsen has had a hard on going after Church, falls ill with the flu for several weeks, gets injured, gets crapped on by FR, gets crap for not going to play Mexican Ball, and he is STILL HERE.  I am amazed he hasn't outright asked for trade already.  Church not a team player?  Not a Nat?  

Church has been and is way more a Nat than Chicago-loving hyena boy could've pretended to be.

Solid points, but I'd take one year of Sorianos money loving 40-40-40 over Churchs nagging and complaining any day of the week.

He has spoken out once against his critics and considering the amount of unwarranted crap they give him, he is allowed to.

($0)rian0's 40-40-40 did nothing for us.  It was completely worthless to us.

lol why are we always getting into arguements NotL? Take Soriano out of the lineup and put Church there, and you'll see just how "worthless" Soriano was  

Again, I'm a fan of Church's potential. So please don't turn me into Church hater no. 1 because I am not.

  Do we really get into arguments all that much?  Well, damn.

He was completely worthless.  What did it get us?  What did him going 40-40-40 give the team?  Last place in the NL East?  Oh sure, it was glitz and glam but when you look at it and where the Nats finished and what they accomplished in 06', you find it amounted to nothing.  Nothing of value to the team.  Plenty of value to the Cubs newly acquired piece of human excrement himself, but to the Washington Nationals, nothing.

I know your not a Church basher.  Don't worry.

[UMDNats]

If that was Shawn Hill who just posted, then he just got 100 more cool points in my book. A player who wants to talk and interact with the fans like that is someone I can really respect.

Again, if it was, I hope you have a beast year! I loved using you in MVP 2005, as Colten said.




Back on topic: Church doesn't deserve half the crap he gets. Good to see him actually talk back.

[The Chief]

Well I can't offer any certainty for anyone, but an IP trace of the address from which "Hiller20" posted traces to the following location:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=address&latlongtype=decimal&latitude=43.65&longitude=-79.933

(Keep in mind that's not going to be the actual location he posted from, but rather the nearest hop from his computer to his ISP, so the location in that link could be miles from the location of the actual computer posted from)

Looks pretty close to where his player Bio says he's from.  Now of course this doesn't mean anything, there are lots of ways to fake such things, but I am generally inclined to take such claims at face value unless I have practical or obvious reasons not to.  Just thought I'd share that bit of info with everyone.

In any case, all members are welcome on this board regardless of their identities, so welcome and of course Merry Christmas

[tomterp]

Well even though Ken still is a skeptic, and completely understandable why I suppose, I figured I'd at least stop by and say hi since Tom invited me through email on the other board, thank you by the way for that since I had no idea this board existed. Ken was very nice though in his reply to me in email, although he still questioned whether it was actually me or not, and I must agree with him that it really isn't worth any of our time to argue back and forth as to the legitimacy of me or gamer20, unless you were to know personal details about either of us and ask those questions you probably never will know for sure I suppose. It's far too easy for a casual fan to research our stats, and even some bio information that's on the web, so unless we happen to run into each other, I'll just assume that good faith will prevail here and assume that guys like Ryan, myself, and Bergmann who posts on the other board, just happen to browse the net quite a bit and venture around the boards, so it's not unheard of to have a player interact with the fans as long as it's kept civil. Happy to be here though, thanks again Tom, and hopefully Ryan and I can help the team as much as possible next season and have you guys behind us. Take care and Merry Christmas.

Shawn, welcome to the "other side"!  Chief is the board "owner", but the other moderators do an excellent job as well.  If you need something, just ask, they've always been great to me.  As for me, I have one question for you- is your elbow ready for spring training?

[Kenz aFan]

Shawn, welcome to the "other side"!  Chief is the board "owner", but the other moderators do an excellent job as well.  If you need something, just ask, they've always been great to me.  As for me, I have one question for you- is your elbow ready for spring training?

For the mixed bunch we are, I think we've done OK as Mods. Tom is right, if you need anything, and it's within our, or The Chief's power, I'm sure we can handle it.

Also great question by Tom about your arm. I too would to know... I have a second question. Have you ever had a chance to watch the Orangemen play, especially during their heyday, when they were an national powerhouse?

[ColtonWillems]

  Do we really get into arguments all that much?  Well, damn.

He was completely worthless.  What did it get us?  What did him going 40-40-40 give the team?  Last place in the NL East?  Oh sure, it was glitz and glam but when you look at it and where the Nats finished and what they accomplished in 06', you find it amounted to nothing.  Nothing of value to the team.  Plenty of value to the Cubs newly acquired piece of human excrement himself, but to the Washington Nationals, nothing.

I know your not a Church basher.  Don't worry.

Sorry, that last quote trail was getting way too long for its own good.

Now, without Soriano going 40-40-40, just picture where the team would've ended up. Pretty awful sight isn't it?

Now as for what that 40-40-40 should have gotten us, it should have gotten us some kick ass prospects that our lame GM never jumped on. If he knew there was no chance at re-signing him (which I'm sure JimBo did) why didn't he deal him? Pathetic.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

  Do we really get into arguments all that much?  Well, damn.

He was completely worthless.  What did it get us?  What did him going 40-40-40 give the team?  Last place in the NL East?  Oh sure, it was glitz and glam but when you look at it and where the Nats finished and what they accomplished in 06', you find it amounted to nothing.  Nothing of value to the team.  Plenty of value to the Cubs newly acquired piece of human excrement himself, but to the Washington Nationals, nothing.

I know your not a Church basher.  Don't worry.

Sorry, that last quote trail was getting way too long for its own good.

Now, without Soriano going 40-40-40, just picture where the team would've ended up. Pretty awful sight isn't it?

Now as for what that 40-40-40 should have gotten us, it should have gotten us some kick ass prospects that our lame GM never jumped on. If he knew there was no chance at re-signing him (which I'm sure JimBo did) why didn't he deal him? Pathetic.

The Team w/ ($0)rian0 going 40: 5th in the NL East
The Team WITHOUT ($0)rian0's 40: 5th in the NL East
The Team finished in 06' at: 5th in the NL East

I still fail to see the difference between the "awful sights."

Ugh, JimBo.  I agree, we should of robbed all other teams but we didn't make the moves.  Biggest player handling blunder for the Nats so far in their first two years back.

[Hiller20]

Hey Tom, as far as the elbow goes, it's 110% right now, I've been throwing long toss and will be starting bullpens as soon as I head back down south in january. Seeing as this was my first season back from surgery I sort of expected a setback, so hoping now that this is season #2 that I'll be able to go the entire season without any setbacks, although I would expect that some discomfort will happen at some point, just need to hope it's mild if any at all. As far as the Orangemen go Ken, I have no idea how or why but somehow I became an Arizona Wildcat fan at some point, so I never really followed the Orangmen alot but we always did get quite a bit of their coverage here, along with the Bills of course.

[tomterp]

Glad to hear the elbow's ready for the season.  You're kind of a forgotten guy in the rotation competition, as far as DC based fans go.  We have never seen you pitch 100% healthy, really.  Most of the guys with Tommy John surgery seem to struggle first year back, but come back better than ever in the 2nd year.  Here's hoping you are able to complete the long road back.  Gosh knows would could use a few healthy young arms in the rotation.  

Many fans are optimistic that Ayala will be ready to go this season, but I think fans need to be realistic so far as his possible effectiveness just a full year out of surgery.

[ColtonWillems]

  Do we really get into arguments all that much?  Well, damn.

He was completely worthless.  What did it get us?  What did him going 40-40-40 give the team?  Last place in the NL East?  Oh sure, it was glitz and glam but when you look at it and where the Nats finished and what they accomplished in 06', you find it amounted to nothing.  Nothing of value to the team.  Plenty of value to the Cubs newly acquired piece of human excrement himself, but to the Washington Nationals, nothing.

I know your not a Church basher.  Don't worry.

Sorry, that last quote trail was getting way too long for its own good.

Now, without Soriano going 40-40-40, just picture where the team would've ended up. Pretty awful sight isn't it?

Now as for what that 40-40-40 should have gotten us, it should have gotten us some kick ass prospects that our lame GM never jumped on. If he knew there was no chance at re-signing him (which I'm sure JimBo did) why didn't he deal him? Pathetic.

The Team w/ ($0)rian0 going 40: 5th in the NL East
The Team WITHOUT ($0)rian0's 40: 5th in the NL East
The Team finished in 06' at: 5th in the NL East

I still fail to see the difference between the "awful sights."

Ugh, JimBo.  I agree, we should of robbed all other teams but we didn't make the moves.  Biggest player handling blunder for the Nats so far in their first two years back.

I see your point at 5th in the NL East, and now I'm contradicting myself by saying the only thing of not having Soriano in the first place, would be a better draft pick  

If only JimBo handled Soriano like he did Stanton. Deal him for prospects and re-sign him  

Glad to hear the elbow is ready Hill. But do us all a favor, and if you feel you can't pitch because of the pain, please don't. No more setbacks for you! I'm ready to see you on the mound every fifth day for a long time!

go nats!

[Kenz aFan]

Hey Tom, as far as the elbow goes, it's 110% right now, I've been throwing long toss and will be starting bullpens as soon as I head back down south in january. Seeing as this was my first season back from surgery I sort of expected a setback, so hoping now that this is season #2 that I'll be able to go the entire season without any setbacks, although I would expect that some discomfort will happen at some point, just need to hope it's mild if any at all. As far as the Orangemen go Ken, I have no idea how or why but somehow I became an Arizona Wildcat fan at some point, so I never really followed the Orangmen alot but we always did get quite a bit of their coverage here, along with the Bills of course.

Great news about the arm, I'm sure Nats fans will be more than happy to hear that, elated even.

As for the Orangemen each of us is referring to, I kinda doubt we're talking the same sport, but it's cool, not everyone is a lacrosse fan. I guess Orangeville is too far up the road and any loyalties there might be go to teams closer to home. I only asked because the team I played for way back when, lost to them in the round robin of Canadian championships by 2 goals. In the end, our speed was no match for the savvy they had.

Have a great day and try to take it ease on the turkey...

[JMW IV]

I can right now look any one of you in the eye and guarantee you that was NOT Ryan Church.  These guys are professionals, and would not go on a message board and post something like THAT.  Period.

I can look you right in the eye and promise you that gamer20 *is* Ryan Church.

he also posts on the Capitol Dugout boards, under the same handle.

and has been for a good while now.

and as someone who was on the field, within talking distance of the man for most home games in 2005, I can positively, without doubt, confirm this.

[Senators2005]

I can look you right in the eye and promise you that gamer20 *is* Ryan Church.

he also posts on the Capitol Dugout boards, under the same handle.

and has been for a good while now.

and as someone who was on the field, within talking distance of the man for most home games in 2005, I can positively, without doubt, confirm this.

Capitol Dugout and Scout are the same = tumbleweed.  However, glad to hear we have cleared up the controversy and hope we can all just move on.  

[NatsAddict]

Back when Frank Cruz appeared...

What ever happened to that guy? He must have gotten kicked out of Suite Bowden at the DR camp, and no longer have internet access.  I guess Emsailyn moved in and Frank Felix got thrown back in with the general population

I saw him down here a couple times in the GCL games.  I think he had some visa trouble (as all minor leaguer used to - especially Nats as they were short on their allotment of the old visas MiLB's had to use - that should change this year now that they are classified as full-time employees) and wasn't around for the GCL opener.  At least I couldn't find him then.

He's listed as 6'0", but he looks taller than that.  He's only 16 and still growing, and has a classic SS physique.  He has very quick hands and feet.

Back to Church - the guy has a nice quick compact swing.  Watching it in sl-mo is awesome.  When the pitch selection improves he'll be a big contributor to the team.  I have no doubt about the improvement in his approach at the plate.  His discipline/approach, especially with RISP, has improved greatly each year.  His ratio of RBI/RISP AB was about .455 last year, which is pretty respectable - and better than Zimmerman (.429).   With RISP & 2 Out, his ratio was .571 and Zimmerman's drops to .389.  I'm not saying he's better than Zimmerman, just that Church's situational hitting is better than for what he's given credit.  

Comparing Church to Zimmerman:
Overall, Zimmerman produced .142 runs per PA, but Church was respectable at .124.  Over the course of a season, this would come to about 11.7 runs produced with 650 PAs.  However, Zimmerman had a RISP 32.2% of his AB, and Church only 28.1%.  This is a large factor in their RP/PA.  With 600 AB, this would provide Church with about 24 more RISP opportunities.  At his rate, that would be 11 more RBI or 5.5 RP.  Church, despite his K rate, had a better OBP (.366) than Zimmerman (.351).  However, Zimmerman was driven in .294 of the time he was on base other than by HR, while the batters following Church only drove him in .171 of the time he left himself on base. Over 650 PA, Church would be on base 10 more times than Zimmerman.   However, since the guys behind Church suck at driving in runners, that only account for 1.7 runs.  Finally, if the guys behind Church drove in runs at the clip the guys following Zimmerman did, he'd score 29 more times (produce 14.5 more runs) over 650 PA.  In short, if the guy's behind him were as decent at driving in baserunners as the guys behind Zimmerman, that factor alone would provide Church with a better run production rate than Zimmerman.  That's the one thing in run production that is out of Church's control.  In what is withing his control, driving in baserunners and getting on base, and in driving in himself (HR), Church was more productive than Zimmerman in 2006.  And Zimmerman's future All-Star and maybe even MVP material.

[Senators2005]

Comparing Church to Zimmerman:
Overall, Zimmerman produced .142 runs per PA, but Church was respectable at .124.  Over the course of a season, this would come to about 11.7 runs produced with 650 PAs.  However, Zimmerman had a RISP 32.2% of his AB, and Church only 28.1%.  This is a large factor in their RP/PA.  With 600 AB, this would provide Church with about 24 more RISP opportunities.  At his rate, that would be 11 more RBI or 5.5 RP.  Church, despite his K rate, had a better OBP (.366) than Zimmerman (.351).  However, Zimmerman was driven in .294 of the time he was on base other than by HR, while the batters following Church only drove him in .171 of the time he left himself on base. Over 650 PA, Church would be on base 10 more times than Zimmerman.   However, since the guys behind Church suck at driving in runners, that only account for 1.7 runs.  Finally, if the guys behind Church drove in runs at the clip the guys following Zimmerman did, he'd score 29 more times (produce 14.5 more runs) over 650 PA.  In short, if the guy's behind him were as decent at driving in baserunners as the guys behind Zimmerman, that factor alone would provide Church with a better run production rate than Zimmerman.  That's the one thing in run production that is out of Church's control.  In what is withing his control, driving in baserunners and getting on base, and in driving in himself (HR), Church was more productive than Zimmerman in 2006.  And Zimmerman's future All-Star and maybe even MVP material.

I know you are a fellow WVU grad but after reading this quote I am very curious: did you major in physics or nuclear science?  

[NatsAddict]

Comparing Church to Zimmerman:
Overall, Zimmerman produced .142 runs per PA, but Church was respectable at .124.  Over the course of a season, this would come to about 11.7 runs produced with 650 PAs.  However, Zimmerman had a RISP 32.2% of his AB, and Church only 28.1%.  This is a large factor in their RP/PA.  With 600 AB, this would provide Church with about 24 more RISP opportunities.  At his rate, that would be 11 more RBI or 5.5 RP.  Church, despite his K rate, had a better OBP (.366) than Zimmerman (.351).  However, Zimmerman was driven in .294 of the time he was on base other than by HR, while the batters following Church only drove him in .171 of the time he left himself on base. Over 650 PA, Church would be on base 10 more times than Zimmerman.   However, since the guys behind Church suck at driving in runners, that only account for 1.7 runs.  Finally, if the guys behind Church drove in runs at the clip the guys following Zimmerman did, he'd score 29 more times (produce 14.5 more runs) over 650 PA.  In short, if the guy's behind him were as decent at driving in baserunners as the guys behind Zimmerman, that factor alone would provide Church with a better run production rate than Zimmerman.  That's the one thing in run production that is out of Church's control.  In what is withing his control, driving in baserunners and getting on base, and in driving in himself (HR), Church was more productive than Zimmerman in 2006.  And Zimmerman's future All-Star and maybe even MVP material.

I know you are a fellow WVU grad but after reading this quote I am very curious: did you major in physics or nuclear science?  

Worse - Accounting/Economics :oops:

[tomterp]

Great post, Natsaddict.  Church was typically batting further down in the order, and we all know what kind of production we have been getting out of the bottom.  Once Church had batted, there was nobody left to drive him in.  On the other hand, Zimmerman had Church or Kearns or Escobar or at least 1-2 more good bats behind him.

You could also try comparing Church to Kearns.  I think it was Baseball Prospectus who observed that Church is slightly better than Kearns offensively, and yet we all assume Kearns to be a lock for right field.  An open minded manager would not assume this to be the case, and would entertain options at all of our outfield positions.  Should be an interesting spring training, eh?

[2k6nats]

Glad to hear the elbow is ready Hill. But do us all a favor, and if you feel you can't pitch because of the pain, please don't. No more setbacks for you! I'm ready to see you on the mound every fifth day for a long time!

go nats!

I agree.  Can't wait to see the whole rotation healthy and starting, instead of old guys who get injured frequently.