2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread

[JCA-CrystalCity]

After last season,  there is wally pip potential with Lombo.

Nah, it took Gehrig to Wally Pipp Wally Pipp.  If Lombo could have sent Espinosa to the bench, then it would have happened last September. 

[HalfSmokes]

Wally pip had home run titles,  Espinosa is chasing k titles

[Lintyfresh85]

Wally pip had home run titles,  Espinosa is chasing k titles

There's really not question as to who's the better player between the two.

[nobleisthyname]

Wally pip had home run titles,  Espinosa is chasing k titles

And gold gloves and 20+ home run seasons.

Lombardozzi will chase slap singles and utility man of the year.

[HalfSmokes]

There's really not question as to who's the better player between the two.

If espy flails away for a month like laroche did in 2011, I think you'll be right. Espinosa is in a position where he has a short term replacement who likely won't be a disaster and a first round pick who should be ready in another year- would you be surprised if he tried to gut it out and prove himself- I wouldn't

[Lintyfresh85]

If espy flails away for a month like laroche did in 2011, I think you'll be right. Espinosa is in a position where he has a short term replacement who likely won't be a disaster and a first round pick who should be ready in another year- would you be surprised if he tried to gut it out and prove himself- I wouldn't

Ok. When healthy, there's no comparing the two. Better?

[HalfSmokes]

Ok. When healthy, there's no comparing the two. Better?

my point is, if rendon is on/ahead of schedule, Espy may never get the shot to prove himself healthy (assuming Rendon goes to second)- this might be his year to prove himself

[Lintyfresh85]

my point is, if rendon is on/ahead of schedule, Espy may never get the shot to prove himself healthy (assuming Rendon goes to second)- this might be his year to prove himself

The past two years, Espinosa is #7 in baseball in WAR at 2B (even higher WAR in 2012 than in 2011).

[HalfSmokes]

The past two years, Espinosa is #7 in baseball in WAR at 2B (even higher WAR in 2012 than in 2011).

which is great, but he's not going to block Rendon for long (especially if he sucks/is injured this year), and if Desmond comes close to repeating last year, he's not pushing him off short

[Lintyfresh85]

which is great, but he's not going to block Rendon for long (especially if he sucks/is injured this year), and if Desmond comes close to repeating last year, he's not pushing him off short

Rendon would do well to actually play a game at anywhere outside of 3B before people assume he can actually handle a MI position.

[HalfSmokes]

Rendon would do well to actually play a game at anywhere outside of 3B before people assume he can actually handle a MI position.

that's taken for a while, and he'd have to out hit skole and Moore to get first (something he hasn't shown the ability to do in a long time)

[Lintyfresh85]

that's taken for a while, and he'd have to out hit skole and Moore to get first (something he hasn't shown the ability to do in a long time)

Skole/Moore aren't nearly as good as Espinosa yet you're worried Rendon couldn't beat them out?

[Hondo]

Really?  Are you his doctor?

I don't get the Rendon at 2nd talk. His ankles are too fragile...

[NJ Ave]

Wally pip had home run titles,  Espinosa is chasing k titles

At the time Espinosa tore his rotator cuff, he was around .258/.323/.423 and was on pace for 60 extra base hits and 20 home runs to go with gold glove defense.

From tearing his rotator cuff to the end of the season, he hit .181/.261/.277.

Also, the only reason Espinosa would be worried about his long-term security is if he had as stunted a view of his own skills as some people on this board. The guy is going to make a ton of money in his career (either here or elsewhere), and probably play for 10 years.

[HalfSmokes]

Skole/Moore aren't nearly as good as Espinosa yet you're worried Rendon couldn't beat them out?

We're not talking about Espinosa playing first- he'd be worthless playing there. We're talking about slotting in Rendon. To play first, unless his defense was stellar and Skole/Moore had hands of stone, it's about the bat, and Rendon hasn't proven he has the better bat than either. For some reason people seem to think he can play second (not just interwebz posters- legitimate hack journalists have him there), and a down season by Espinosa may be his opening

[JCA-CrystalCity]

We're not talking about Espinosa playing first- he'd be worthless playing there. We're talking about slotting in Rendon. To play first, unless his defense was stellar and Skole/Moore had hands of stone, it's about the bat, and Rendon hasn't proven he has the better bat than either. For some reason people seem to think he can play second (not just interwebz posters- legitimate hack journalists have him there), and a down season by Espinosa may be his opening

HS - he was a shortstop who got moved to 3d because Hague was the SS at the time.  Last year, he played SS in the spring.  It's not just hack journalists, it is the organization that says he can play middle infield.  As for 2d, I be the hack interwebz poster to say that if the organization thinks he can play SS, he probably can play 2d.

[HalfSmokes]

It's not just hack journalists, it is the organization that says he can play middle infield. 

that's why I said espy should be worried

[Lintyfresh85]

that's why I said espy should be worried

In that scenario, Skole/Moore should be the one that is worried. As Espy/Rendon would be better than both.

[HalfSmokes]

If Rendon can play competent second,  Rendon and Skole or Moore is far better offensively than Rendon Espinosa

[Rasta]

Man I just hope Rendon can stay healthy and live up to his potential.

[R-Zim#11]

Really?  Are you his doctor?

It doesn't take a doctor to look and see how many times he's injured his ankles...it just takes a wee bit of common sense. Likewise, how much 2nd has he played in college or the minors?

[NJ Ave]

If Rendon can play competent second,  Rendon and Skole or Moore is far better offensively than Rendon Espinosa

No offense, but I'm not even sure than Rendon has proven yet that Rendon > Espinosa offensively, let alone that he's so much better offensively that it outweighs lesser defensive contributions.

Raking in high-A for 9 games is great, but at the same age as Rendon last year Espinosa was looking pretty advanced himself at high-A (.264/.375/.460). If Rendon puts up a .900 OPS this year in AA and above, I'll start believing he might outperform Espinosa offensively at the major league level.

But it's not "easy" to OPS .800-.850 as a major league MI, which is at least what Rendon will have to do to be more valuable than Espinosa.

[DPMOmaha]

It doesn't take a doctor to look and see how many times he's injured his ankles...it just takes a wee bit of common sense. Likewise, how much 2nd has he played in college or the minors?

About the same as Danny played.

[HalfSmokes]

Rendon may just end up as trade bait if he can't play mi, his bat is more valuable at third than first,  but then you have to move Zimmerman and his bat ends up losing a lot of its value

[NJ Ave]

Rendon may just end up as trade bait if he can't play mi, his bat is more valuable at third than first,  but then you have to move Zimmerman and his bat ends up losing a lot of its value

I'm not worried about it. This isn't the 2002 offensive environment. If you can OPS .825-.850, you can contribute at 1B if you defend well. Rendon or Zimmerman at 1B isn't going to kill the club offensively.

People count LaRoche as a huge contributor last season, and in 2002 his ~.850 OPS would have been middle of the road at 1B, at best.