Author Topic: Philosophical Question for Baseball Coaches......  (Read 1244 times)

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MrMadison

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Can you be a successful pitcher at a high level, without mastering some sort of breaking Ball?

I'm talking like mastering several fastball/changeup variations(splitter, sinker, circle change etc) and changing speeds effectively, and not throwing Curveballs or Sliders.

I don't pay too much attention to a particular pitcher's repertoire in the Majors, but I know who has the truly outstanding pitches(like Pedro's Changeup, Mariano Rivera's Cutter,etc.), so I wouldn't know how many pitchers were successful without any breaking pitches.

I'm only asking this out of curiosity, really.

Offline ronnynat

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Santana could probably pitch only his circle change and fastball and get by. That's all I can really think of. Not many starters could do that. Maybe a few relievers.

Offline spidernat

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Relievers would have an easier time pulling that off (Hoffman is one that comes to mind) but while it may be difficult to succeed without the benefit of a breaking pitch, it isn't impossible. Changing speeds, working both sides of the plate (especially inside), altering hitters' eye level by pitching high and low in the strike zone (especially low), above average mechanics, great command and the confidence (or balls) to go after hitters is more than enough to compensate for the lack of a breaking pitch. That's enough to keep hitters off balance and offset their timing. But that's also a lot to master. Of course it wouldn't hurt to throw in the mid to high 90's.  :lol: 

Offline CALSGR8

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Its a good question.  In the OLD days of Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson and Cy Young, did they have as much of a variety of pitches as pitchers do today.

Of course hitters were different back then too.  We didn't have all this weight training etc. back then so maybe as many pitches weren't necessary.  hmmm.

natsfan1a

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Didn't they throw underhand as well?

Offline CALSGR8

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Didn't they throw underhand as well?

I don't know to tell you the truth.  I don't think so.  Pictures of Walter Johnson anyway seem to be over hand.  I'll have to ask Hank, his grandson.  Since he wrote a book on him, he should know.

Maybe more of a whipping side arm motion.

Offline soxfan59

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I don't know to tell you the truth.  I don't think so.  Pictures of Walter Johnson anyway seem to be over hand.  I'll have to ask Hank, his grandson.  Since he wrote a book on him, he should know.

Maybe more of a whipping side arm motion.

I think its well established that Johnson threw overhand or three-quarters, and he had a very theatrical windmill type windup.  It was the "style" back then to really put on a show before you threw a pitch. 

Offline NatsAddict

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Back to the original question....

I don't think you can compete at a high level without some sort of a moving pitch unless you have a truly exceptional fastball of some type to mix in with a good change.  The difference between the fastball and change had better be so great that the batter cannot split the difference in anticipation, and then adjust as the pitch comes in.  In other words, there has to be a minimum of 14-15 mph between the fastball and change. 

There aren't many with that truly exceptional fastball.  At low levels, velocity alone is enough.  At mid levels, changes in velocity is enough.  At the high levels, they are looking for location, movement, and velocity - in that order.    I believe any pitcher is much more likely to compete with curve/slider.

A few years ago, there was a debate on the Marlins board about whether the members magically gained MLB talent, in a must get the ball in play situation, would they rather face Beckett's typically 95-97 fastball, 80 change, and 12-6 looney tunes curve; or AJ Burnetts 98-100 fastball and low 90s change (he has, since leaving the Marlins, been effective with a decent curve).  Even in my dreams, I'd have enormous trouble with AJ's fastball, though his location was suspect.  I said Beckett until unless I was behind in the count.  If I was behind, I'd much rather face a relative known with AJ than face Beckett and not having any idea if I would be frozen by a fastball, made to look like an idiot with the change, or have my knees buckle with the curve.



I was thinking I'd seen Pedro throw several curves, especially in recent years, which TSN supports:

Quote
Assets     Though he's lost a few clicks on his heater, he's learned how to use it better. You never know from the speed and angle of his arm when he's throwing a change-up that comes at you 15 mph slower than his fastball. Lefties can't do a thing with his curveball, which also comes from various angles.

Flaws    Though he's gained some weight, he's thin and has to put his body through a lot to get a ball to the plate as fast as he does, which has a thing or two to do with his problems with nagging injuries. The few base-runners he allows find it easy to take second on him.
TSN


natsfan1a

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ha ha, we had a Big Train derailment.  :D

Back to the original question....


Offline NatsAddict

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ha ha, we had a Big Train derailment.  :D


Going for the extra credit again, huh?  :lol:

natsfan1a

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Offline ronnynat

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natsfan1a

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