shooting at Smith mountain lake

[skippy1999]

Well, here's the problem, do you want to go back to the days where people with autism and "mental retardation" are institutionalized and forgotten about or do you want to continually err on the side of caution and give everyone and their brother a 27th chance to succeed and down play obvious mental illness issues?  The US doesn't seem interested in finding any middle ground between those two outcomes when it comes to mental health treatment.

No I get that there's a huge issue with how mental illness is treated in this country (although my sister is a nurse and has worked for group homes in CT, the people there are not left drooling in their straightjackets, the state is paying for them to live in nice houses with good staff/patient ratio and they're taken to school or jobs depending on their age and even given money for shopping trips and movies and such, it's not always the "Frances" type of insane asylum when someone is under state care) but anyway I would just like to know more of the background for the shooters than is normally reported on just to see if perhaps there is something that could have been done that maybe someone else will see and recognize that a loved one is exhibiting those same signs and see what might have been able to be done to prevent them from going down the same road.  Pollyannish probably, I just like to think the more we learn the more we might be able to prevent this from happening again and again 

[wj73]

Even if you are, it is damn near impossible to get any sort of "immediate" attention.    You gotta be a threat or taken to the emergency room.    Even then, there is no assurance that help will be available.    It can still take weeks to get an appointment with a mental health provider.

My cousin's son is a corrections guard at a jail in the midwest.  He was telling me a few weeks ago how much of their population consists of people with various degrees of mental illness.  Unfortunately, like so many places, funding for mental health care has been cut drastically in his city, to the point where treatment is almost impossible to get.  He put it pretty succinctly: Like it or not, mentally ill people are not going away, and dealing with them is going to cost money one way or the other - it just depends on which agency's budget you want to put the funding in.  You can fund the health and human services budget for treatment, or you can fund the police and corrections budget to deal with the consequences.  Mostly, we seem to choose the latter. 

[skippy1999]

My cousin's son is a corrections guard at a jail in the midwest.  He was telling me a few weeks ago how much of their population consists of people with various degrees of mental illness.  Unfortunately, like so many places, funding for mental health care has been cut drastically in his city, to the point where treatment is almost impossible to get.  He put it pretty succinctly: Like it or not, mentally ill people are not going away, and dealing with them is going to cost money one way or the other - it just depends on which agency's budget you want to put the funding in.  You can fund the health and human services budget for treatment, or you can fund the police and corrections budget to deal with the consequences.  Mostly, we seem to choose the latter. 

I mean, don't we seem to think everyone who commits bad crimes must be mentally ill? You know what, what if they're just bad people, is that not possible anymore I wonder?

[dracnal]

I mean, don't we seem to think everyone who commits bad crimes must be mentally ill? You know what, what if they're just bad people, is that not possible anymore I wonder?

I'd argue that a huge majority of folks are dealing with mental illness to some degree or another because it's simply a part of our culture. Facebook throws the success and happiness of others into our face. The art of using music to jack with emotions has been really refined to the point that we have a massive consumer mentality and feel horrible when we can't keep up with the latest thing. The always on mentality that comes with personal smart phones for work email and activities. How connected computers make us to the point we never get a break.

Depression is pretty much the natural side effect of constantly having your serotonin levels kicked in the balls choking down stress, feeling inferior and never, ever unplugging your brain from artificial glare.  I don't think there's a great fix for this one since it's kind of the price of modern living in America.

But yeah, we've decided as a nation to put the funds elsewhere and legal/enforcement/corrections gets the lion's share of the bills as a result with emergency rooms right behind.

[skippy1999]

I'd argue that a huge majority of folks are dealing with mental illness to some degree or another because it's simply a part of our culture. Facebook throws the success and happiness of others into our face. The art of using music to jack with emotions has been really refined to the point that we have a massive consumer mentality and feel horrible when we can't keep up with the latest thing. The always on mentality that comes with personal smart phones for work email and activities. How connected computers make us to the point we never get a break.

Depression is pretty much the natural side effect of constantly having your serotonin levels kicked in the balls choking down stress, feeling inferior and never, ever unplugging your brain from artificial glare.  I don't think there's a great fix for this one since it's kind of the price of modern living in America.

But yeah, we've decided as a nation to put the funds elsewhere and legal/enforcement/corrections gets the lion's share of the bills as a result with emergency rooms right behind.

I don't really agree with any of that. I love Facebook but fully realize people are only showing the good stuff, we've all got bad stuff going on, anyone who thinks what they're seeing on social media is someone's real life and they're bummed out and now feel inferior is kind of an idiot IMO

[dracnal]

http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/facebook-causes-depression-new-study-says/

A random link to a study, but there have been many. I'm glad that you're secure in your sense of self. That's a good thing. But for a lot of folks, it's not good for mental health.

[skippy1999]

http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/facebook-causes-depression-new-study-says/

A random link to a study, but there have been many. I'm glad that you're secure in your sense of self. That's a good thing. But for a lot of folks, it's not good for mental health.

Then they should disconnect for awhile   seriously I just for whatever reason don't have much sympathy for "poor me" people who are depressed they don't have what their neighbor has-they need to either work harder to get it or be happy with what they DO have, I don't see it as that big a problem but I'm clearly in the minority according to all of the studies so I'll shut up

[dracnal]

Then they should disconnect for awhile   seriously I just for whatever reason don't have much sympathy for "poor me" people who are depressed they don't have what their neighbor has-they need to either work harder to get it or be happy with what they DO have, I don't see it as that big a problem but I'm clearly in the minority according to all of the studies so I'll shut up

Hehehhe. I think you have the advantage of two things - one being raised close on the heels of the great depression and WWII, combined with the desire to use technology but not be defined by it.

You also didn't have sociologists pushing participation trophies at people left and right. Sprinkles are for winners is a message that ain't very fashionable anymore and we're seeing the results with a lot of folks.  My kids are shocked and disgusted by their friends who purposefully smash or break or drop in water phones they feel need an upgrade. Mine know they'd get a $10 trac fone with minutes they paid for themselves if they were that irresponsible.

[spidernat]

Mine know they'd get a $10 trac fone with minutes they paid for themselves if they were that irresponsible.

  That's freaking awesome.

[HalfSmokes]

Then they should disconnect for awhile   seriously I just for whatever reason don't have much sympathy for "poor me" people who are depressed they don't have what their neighbor has-they need to either work harder to get it or be happy with what they DO have, I don't see it as that big a problem but I'm clearly in the minority according to all of the studies so I'll shut up

just because someone has a nice car or a huge house doesn't mean they actually have money, and just because someone doesn't have those things, doesn't mean they're broke- for some reason, those lessons don't seem to get learned

[dracnal]

I'm dead serious about it. My biggest hope is that my kids will leave the house, hit the real world and say 'Oh. This isn't nearly as tough as I was expecting.' We had our first at age 21 and she turns 20 in two days. We lived inside the city limits of DC in a neighborhood where the average income was two parents - one a doctor, one a lawyer. My kids knew we were poor in comparison but they learned to value what they had and to earn what they wanted to have.

My folks paid for things relating to education and personal development (ie music lessons and science camp were covered, scuba lessons and gear I had to earn myself).  I figured I turned from a punk ass high school to a guy who stood by a girl he got pregnant and scraped to the point where the family is now pretty comfortable. Must have been something worthwhile in their values, so I tried to pass them on.

[mitlen]

It's these damn FIOS commercials !

Then they should disconnect for awhile   seriously I just for whatever reason don't have much sympathy for "poor me" people who are depressed they don't have what their neighbor has-they need to either work harder to get it or be happy with what they DO have, I don't see it as that big a problem but I'm clearly in the minority according to all of the studies so I'll shut up

Seriously, some people have no more "control" over their depression or bi-polar disorder than people with cancer have over their disease.    Ya can't will it away.

[skippy1999]

I'm dead serious about it. My biggest hope is that my kids will leave the house, hit the real world and say 'Oh. This isn't nearly as tough as I was expecting.' We had our first at age 21 and she turns 20 in two days. We lived inside the city limits of DC in a neighborhood where the average income was two parents - one a doctor, one a lawyer. My kids knew we were poor in comparison but they learned to value what they had and to earn what they wanted to have.

My folks paid for things relating to education and personal development (ie music lessons and science camp were covered, scuba lessons and gear I had to earn myself).  I figured I turned from a punk ass high school to a guy who stood by a girl he got pregnant and scraped to the point where the family is now pretty comfortable. Must have been something worthwhile in their values, so I tried to pass them on.

  I think raising kids to want to earn things is the best way to prevent the depression over what they don't have, you appreciate things you work for SO much more!

[skippy1999]

It's these damn FIOS commercials !

Seriously, some people have no more "control" over their depression or bi-polar disorder than people with cancer have over their disease.    Ya can't will it away.

Absolutely but some people don't have any mental illness at all but still act like brats because they don't have what other people have, that's mainly who I was talking about. 

[mitlen]

just because someone has a nice car or a huge house doesn't mean they actually have money, and just because someone doesn't have those things, doesn't mean they're broke- for some reason, those lessons don't seem to get learned

A lady at a club one night asked me, "What kind of car do you drive?"    I told her, "You shouldn't ask 'what kind of car do you drive".     You should ask, "What kind of car can you afford?"