Nats Batting Order

[ChiliPalmer14]

I saw a thread that touched on this, but it wasn't it's own.  And it's kinda fun to play manager. 

1st) CF  Span 
    -  He's still my pick here, but if he can't raise that OBP to .350+, the offense could disappoint again.
2nd) RF  Werth
    - Could be Harper, but if Werth leads the team in OBP again, I like him here.  Enough speed, right handed between lefties, but his season last year would fit him in the three hole for most teams.
3rd) LF  Harper
    - Second to tops on the team in OPS, lefty between two righties, more ABs than he'd get batting 5th.  Most expect even more improved offense.  I'm among them.
4th) 3B  Zimmerman
    - Most homers for last season.  Will take his base, deceptive speed, and would be a good second lead-off guy if Harper clears the bases. 
5th) SS  Desmond
    - I'd like LaRoche here for the left handed bat, but I think Desi's slugging percentage needs as many ABs as possible. 
6th) 1B  LaRoche
    - He's gotta bounce back some, doesn't he?
7th) C  Ramos
    - If Span can't get on base around 35% of the time, and laugh if you want, I'd bat Zim first and Ramos fourth.  It may not be fair, but if you take Ramos' 2013 season and project it for 152 games (a lot for a catcher) he hits 30 homers and knocks in 100 from the bottom of the line-up.  This guy might be trying to be Yadier Molina.  If he can play 125 games, and last year wasn't an anomaly for him, I think he'll go a long way to changing the lacking offense that plagued the team last season.
8th) 2B  Rendon
    - I think he's here all year.  I'd love to see him hit enough that Williams feels the need to move him up, though.  If Span doesn't get on base more, or heaven forbid, regresses, then I'd put Span here (or take him out of the line-up) and move five through eight all up a spot.
 

[imref]

i think you are pretty well spot on assuming no platoons.

[ChiliPalmer14]

Platoons are a possibility, for sure.  Like if LaRoche can't hit lefties.  If Zack Walters keeps looking good, and/or Espinosa can remember anything about hitting, platoons might be a really good thing. 

[HalfSmokes]

I saw a thread that touched on this, but it wasn't it's own.  And it's kinda fun to play manager. 

1st) CF  Span 
    -  He's still my pick here, but if he can't raise that OBP to .350+, the offense could disappoint again.
 

he hasn't had a .350 OBP since 2009. I'd put Werth 1, Rendon 2 and Span 8 with the rest as you had it

[Ray D]

he hasn't had a .350 OBP since 2009.

Sad part is, he doesn't even seem to be able to achieve .350 against righthanders.

I really want him out of the leadoff spot.  Not that I don't like him, I do.  I think he is not comfortable leading off, he tries too hard to be a leadoff hitter, i.e. be "patient" when his normal tendency is to be aggressive at the plate.

[terpfan417]

I kind of like Ramos over Laroche unless Roachy actually starts hot for once (unlikely). Other than that I think you are spot on.

HOWEVER, against lefties I am definitely of the opinion than Span should not hit lead off. Against tough lefties I would go with something like:

Werth
Harper
Desmond
Zimmerman
Ramos
Laroche (or Moore?)
Rendon
Span

[varoadking]

Werth will pitch a nag about hitting 2nd...this is what I see:

Span
Zimmerman
Harper
Werth
Desmond
Ramos
1st Baseman du jour
Rendon
Pitcher du jour

[terpfan417]

Werth will pitch a nag about hitting 2nd...this is what I see:

Span
Zimmerman
Harper
Werth
Desmond
Ramos
1st Baseman du jour
Rendon
Pitcher du jour

I dont see Zimmerman as any more likely to want to hit 2nd than Werth though...

[Lintyfresh85]

Unfortunately it seems Desmond may bat second which is a big misuse of his bat. He's not a obp guy he's a slugger. 5th fits best for him.

[Ray D]

Against tough lefties I would go with something like:

Werth
Harper

Don't want Harper hitting 2nd against lefties.  He's worse against lefties than Span is.

[Squab]

Unfortunately it seems Desmond may bat second which is a big misuse of his bat. He's not a obp guy he's a slugger. 5th fits best for him.

.330 isn't a bad OBP. He'll also get on 2nd base a lot, via doubles and singles + steals. I bet he steals 35 bags this year.

It would be nice to have him driving in runs with that Slugging percentage, but we have a lot of guys who slug. Better that he get on second with less than two outs and give the big boys the chance to drive him in.

[HalfSmokes]

Is there a reason Rendon couldn't be the OBP guy at second? He had a .329 last year, so not great but close to Desmond and still better than Span, and he's a rookie, so you expect that to improve. His K rate was one of the lowest on the team and his walk rate was decent. Putting him number 2 frees Desmond to hit fifth, puts our best OBP guy first and lets Zimmerman/Harper hit 3/4

[Squab]

Is there a reason Rendon couldn't be the OBP guy at second? He had a .329 last year, so not great but close to Desmond and still better than Span, and he's a rookie, so you expect that to improve. His K rate was one of the lowest on the team and his walk rate was decent. Putting him number 2 frees Desmond to hit fifth, puts our best OBP guy first and lets Zimmerman/Harper hit 3/4

So you're bumping Werth back?

Fact of the matter is, you want your best players getting the most ABs.

Also Williams is going to want to run, and Rendon doesn't do that much.

[HalfSmokes]

So you're bumping Werth back?

Fact of the matter is, you want your best players getting the most ABs.

Also Williams is going to want to run, and Rendon doesn't do that much.

I want Werth leading off- he has the best OBP on the team by a decent margin and that gives him as many at bats as possible

[Mattionals]

My mind's eye tells me:

Span, Rendon, Werth, Zimmerman, Harper, Desmond, LaRoche, Ramos, Pitcher.

[Squab]

I want Werth leading off- he has the best OBP on the team by a decent margin and that gives him as many at bats as possible

It would be nice, but ain't gonna happen.

You might as well put Span and try and structure everything after that because that's how it is for now.

I don't know how Williams will handle it, but Werth wants to hit 3rd. It seems like of all the players who want something, he's most likely to get his way. But then where do you put Zimmerman? I don't know.

[HalfSmokes]

Werth 3rd isn't bad- harper second, zimmerman fourth looks decent, but span shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the lineup- he doesn't have a good OBP and there is no power at all to compensate. The only justifications for batting him first seems to be 1) he's fast- but he barley steals- maybe you can pencil him in for around 20, certainly not more and 2) there is nowhere else to put him, and that just doesn't make sense, he's not good, so we'll slot him into one of the most important positions in the line up!?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

.330 isn't a bad OBP. He'll also get on 2nd base a lot, via doubles and singles + steals. I bet he steals 35 bags this year.

It would be nice to have him driving in runs with that Slugging percentage, but we have a lot of guys who slug. Better that he get on second with less than two outs and give the big boys the chance to drive him in.

It is a batting average-heavy OBP.  He does not walk.  He thrives on attacking the ball.  That profile should be a #3 or #5 hitter, where the XBH potential can drive guys in.

I want RZ and Harper 2d and 4th because I think they are our best hitters.  I'd like Werth leadoff.  Seems we scored a ton of runs with him there in 2012.  However, I can live with Span there and Werth 5th.  Maybe 2 different orders:

v.  RHP                         v. LHP

Span                            Werth
RZ                                Harper
Desi                             Desi
Harper                         RZ
Werth                          Ramos
LaRocheMotel              ALR
Ramos                         Rendon
Rendon                        Span

[Squab]

Werth 3rd isn't bad- harper second, zimmerman fourth looks decent, but span shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the lineup- he doesn't have a good OBP and there is no power at all to compensate. The only justifications for batting him first seems to be 1) he's fast- but he barley steals- maybe you can pencil him in for around 20, certainly not more and 2) there is nowhere else to put him, and that just doesn't make sense, he's not good, so we'll slot him into one of the most important positions in the line up!?

I'm not arguing that he's not the ideal leadoff man if you're in a vacuum. However:

• Management no doubt thinks he'll improve on his .327 OBP last year.
• He only attempted 26 steals last year, I think we see that number jump up past 40 this year, he will steal more than 20
• He is good, especially the second half of last year. .302/.337/.413
  

[Squab]

It is a batting average-heavy OBP.  He does not walk.  He thrives on attacking the ball.  That profile should be a #3 or #5 hitter, where the XBH potential can drive guys in.

I want RZ and Harper 2d and 4th because I think they are our best hitters.  I'd like Werth leadoff.  Seems we scored a ton of runs with him there in 2012.  However, I can live with Span there and Werth 5th.  Maybe 2 different orders:

v.  RHP                         v. LHP

Span                            Werth
RZ                                Harper
Desi                             Desi
Harper                         RZ
Werth                          Ramos
LaRocheMotel              ALR
Ramos                         Rendon
Rendon                        Span

I agree with everything you said, but I'm thinking Williams is going to want speed up high in the order, and that gives you Desmond at 2, and probably never Span that low.

[HalfSmokes]

I'm not arguing that he's not the ideal leadoff man if you're in a vacuum. However:

• Management no doubt thinks he'll improve on his .327 OBP last year.
• He only attempted 26 steals last year, I think we see that number jump up past 40 this year, he will steal more than 20
• He is good, especially the second half of last year. .302/.337/.413
  

his career high for steal is 26, so 40 seems ambitious. If his second half means that he's good, does his first half mean he's terrible? Or are we assuming that his first half was an aberration and that his second half hitting .300+ (which he hasn't done for a whole season since 2009) is the real span?

[Squab]

FWIW, my ideal lineups would be:

RHP Span Werth Harper Zimmerman Desmond Ramos LaRoche Rendon

LHP Werth Harper Zimmerman Desmond Ramos LaRoche Rendon Span

But the reality is, they're not going to hit Werth leadoff, or probably even second. He'll hit third or fourth. From what we've heard thus far in camp. It's looking like
Span
Desmond
Werth
Zimmerman
Harper
LaRoche
Rendon
Ramos (maybe switch those 2)

[Squab]

his career high for steal is 26, so 40 seems ambitious. If his second half means that he's good, does his first half mean he's terrible? Or are we assuming that his first half was an aberration and that his second half hitting .300+ (which he hasn't done for a whole season since 2009) is the real span?

I'm not saying he'll steal 40, he'll attempt upwards of 40.

All they've talked about with Span is that he was uncomfortable at the plate first half last year and he didn't have his crap together, obviously he's not going to hit the entire season like he did in the second half, but saying he's not a good player is ridiculous.
 
Again, I'm telling you how it is, now how it should be. The man who actually makes the lineup has to make the assumption that he'll be closer to second half Span than first half, and that means he's going to be your leadoff man.

[HalfSmokes]

Everything we've heard has been about how williams is adaptable and progressive, maybe I'm crazy to think he'll at least drop span against lefties. Maybe I have too much faith in him.

[Squab]

Everything we've heard has been about how williams is adaptable and progressive, maybe I'm crazy to think he'll at least drop span against lefties. Maybe I have too much faith in him.

That would be ideal, but politically it's probably best for him not to show the obvious doubt in Spans abilities against lefties in the first few weeks of the season.