2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread

[lastobjective]

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(Image removed from quote.)

And this is one reason why I prefer FP

[blue911]

You can't blame it on the Astros.  They guys they drafted refused to sign for slot, what you gonna do?   

They signed their guys. They simply choose players that would sign for slot. Judging teams on their first round talent doesn't tell you much about the development side. The Nationals had 4 players on their roster that were drafted after the 10th round. None were starters but contributed something to the team, with the least helpful being John Lannan. In the early days, this was one item that was missing from the team, no talent arriving from the minors. The Detwilers of the world are expected to contribute but the Lombardozzis are what drafting and development are all about.

[Boss Dealwiler]

with the least helpful being John Lannan.

[cmdterps44]

Ray Knight needs to be a Manager or something once Davey leaves. At least keep him around forever. He's passionate about this team.

[HalfSmokes]

Ray Knight needs to be a Manager or something once Davey leaves. At least keep him around forever. He's passionate about this team.

make him and Phill Woods 'of counsel'

[subnuclear]

They signed their guys. They simply choose players that would sign for slot. Judging teams on their first round talent doesn't tell you much about the development side. The Nationals had 4 players on their roster that were drafted after the 10th round. None were starters but contributed something to the team, with the least helpful being John Lannan. In the early days, this was one item that was missing from the team, no talent arriving from the minors. The Detwilers of the world are expected to contribute but the Lombardozzis are what drafting and development are all about.

I believe in 2007 the Astros had problem signing players because McLane decided to listen to Selig and only offer slot. Wade/Heck were ok in the draft, maybe not geniuses, but not terrible and they didn't get top 10 draft picks until 2010. The real problem is that after they made the World Series in 2005, McLane lost interest in winning and kept pushing the salaries down every year until in 2010 they started trading all their veterans for whoever. McLane was a good owner until 2005 or so, but then he let the team rot.

[PC]

For the love of God, DON'T SIGN MICHAEL BOURNE.  He wants too much money and too many years (for his age).   He strikes out too much and doesn't hit for nearly enough power.  This team already has enough strikeout artists.

There's no place for Bourn in this lineup.

[chemist]

so sad I missed this

[WhiteWhale]

Hey man, I put a request out there, she obliged. 

This exact quote got me punched in the face once

[cmdterps44]

so sad I missed this

[BigMeech]

Level 3 - Berkman swung

stop it.

[spidernat]

Anyone that looked at Martis's numbers knew the wins wouldn't keep coming.

Level 3 - Berkman swung

Paging PC, paging PC....

[BigMeech]

[PC]

Paging PC, paging PC....

I've seen shorter homerun swings.

[chemist]

(Image removed from quote.)

I've seen shorter homerun swings.

Stop it. We've had enough pain at the hands of the Cardinals lately.

[spidernat]

(Image removed from quote.)

I've seen shorter homerun swings.

  But you're right.

[Mattionals]

Anybody read Kilgore's article on what to do this Hot Stove™ season?  Suggests that they tried to trade for Ellsbury this year, TWICE.  Not surprised if they give it another go and if LaRoche is signed, they might leverage Morse.  They want Duke over Gorzo and will try to leverage Gorzo out in a deal somewhere.

Ellsbury makes most sense as you can have him for one year and determine by then if Goodwin is ready by 2014.  Then let Ells walk next year.

[comish4lif]

maybe angels?  Dodgers?  Boston?

Not the Dodgers, they just gave $22M to Brandon League.

[zimm_da_kid]

Anybody read Kilgore's article on what to do this Hot Stove™ season?  Suggests that they tried to trade for Ellsbury this year, TWICE.  Not surprised if they give it another go and if LaRoche is signed, they might leverage Morse.  They want Duke over Gorzo and will try to leverage Gorzo out in a deal somewhere.

Ellsbury makes most sense as you can have him for one year and determine by then if Goodwin is ready by 2014.  Then let Ells walk next year.

That's the juiciest piece of info that I've heard so far this offseason

[UMDNats]

Anybody read Kilgore's article on what to do this Hot Stove™ season?  Suggests that they tried to trade for Ellsbury this year, TWICE.  Not surprised if they give it another go and if LaRoche is signed, they might leverage Morse.  They want Duke over Gorzo and will try to leverage Gorzo out in a deal somewhere.

Ellsbury makes most sense as you can have him for one year and determine by then if Goodwin is ready by 2014.  Then let Ells walk next year.

Ellsbury would be interesting. Wonder what it would take. Morse obviously involved, but what else?

[TylerDC]

So as I understand, this new system basically says if YOU think a player is worth the 13.3M offer, you'll get the compensation pick if they sign elsewhere? Seems flawed. What keeps a rich team from offering a bunch of players these deals in hopes of the compensation picks? Don't know if this is realistic.. but yeah. Or what if a team treats a player poorly in September in hopes of them turning down the 13.3M offer?

Two other things. Say LaRoche signs in Houston.. they wouldn't lose their number one overall pick, correct? Confusing.

Lastly, let's say a player who's market value is under 13.3M/year is offered the extension but decides to test the market. Teams aren't going to want to give up a 1st rounder for a 1.5 WAR player. Could this result in an overload of average players in the market with teams unwilling to sign?

Thanks to anyone who sorts this out.

[houston-nat]

Two other things. Say LaRoche signs in Houston.. they wouldn't lose their number one overall pick, correct? Confusing.

This year the top 9 picks are protected. Usually it would be the top 10, but last year somebody (Pirates I think) failed to sign their top-ten draft pick so they got compensation for that.

Lastly, let's say a player who's market value is under 13.3M/year is offered the extension but decides to test the market. Teams aren't going to want to give up a 1st rounder for a 1.5 WAR player. Could this result in an overload of average players in the market with teams unwilling to sign?

Well, that's why basically if you're a bad player you have incentive to accept. Like, say, if Nyjer Morgan had been offered $13.3M, nobody would have signed him in free agency because he's not worth a draft pick, and nobody would have EVER signed him for $13.3M. Basically that's where your agent says, "hey, you may be a fruitcake, but you're not getting a bigger offer than that." My only thought is, maybe somebody hates the city/team so much they would give up anything and everything to get out of there.

[zimm_da_kid]

Agent Scott Boras said there’s no chance of Rick Ankiel returning to the mound, Yahoo’s Tim Brown reports (on Twitter). “He's not pitching," Boras said. It was reported yesterday that Ankiel might be open to pitching again.

[Mattionals]

Lastly, let's say a player who's market value is under 13.3M/year is offered the extension but decides to test the market. Teams aren't going to want to give up a 1st rounder for a 1.5 WAR player. Could this result in an overload of average players in the market with teams unwilling to sign?

Thanks to anyone who sorts this out.

This is two fold.  Now-a-days players are signing longer term extensions when they are younger.  Very rarely do you get very good talent that hits FA at an age under 30.  What you are left with are guys who are past their primes and as you say a bunch of average guys in the market.  Sure it would be weird if some team extends a huge offer to a nobody who is average and doesn't accept it.  Chances are that guy plays in Japan, or Mexico.



Or Cuba.




Or soccer.

[Mattionals]

Mike DiGiovanna ‏@MikeDiGiovanna

#Angels are on the verge of trading RHP Dan Haren to the #Cubs for RH reliever Carlos Marmol.

Wow, that's a crap trade.  Rizzo must hate Haren if that is what he is going for.