Author Topic: The Matt Williams Effect  (Read 30221 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 18063
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #75: April 19, 2014, 05:32:28 PM »
Are we all sure this is true?  Harper barely ran out of the box on that play.  Are you sympathizing with him or are you absolutely certain that everyone was basically strolling out of the box?

I think what Harper did was something we see from players all the time.

If Williams just wanted to make a point, he could have given Harper a stern talking to considering Harper is busting his ass 99.9% of the time. Keeps it out of the public/media light, no one has to answer questions about it, gets the point across.

Instead, he decided to make a spectacle of it and hurt  his team's chances to win in the process. Makes him come across as a tough guy and that's the persona he's been pushing publicly since he got hired.

The biggest part of a manager's job is managing people. Does Harper seem like the kind of person who needs to be benched to understand that he should hustle every play? No. Williams has to have each and every player's trust that he's going to help them play their best every single day. Maybe this blows over and Harper gets it and moves on. But maybe part of the side effect of this is that Harper doesn't trust Williams as much after today. Who knows.

I think Williams totally mishandled this situation.

edit: also, it's funny that this comes up after everyone basically telling Harper last season that he needs to not play as hard.

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 5732
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #76: April 19, 2014, 05:43:42 PM »
I think what Harper did was something we see from players all the time.

If Williams just wanted to make a point, he could have given Harper a stern talking to considering Harper is busting his ass 99.9% of the time. Keeps it out of the public/media light, no one has to answer questions about it, gets the point across.

Instead, he decided to make a spectacle of it and hurt  his team's chances to win in the process. Makes him come across as a tough guy and that's the persona he's been pushing publicly since he got hired.

The biggest part of a manager's job is managing people. Does Harper seem like the kind of person who needs to be benched to understand that he should hustle every play? No. Williams has to have each and every player's trust that he's going to help them play their best every single day. Maybe this blows over and Harper gets it and moves on. But maybe part of the side effect of this is that Harper doesn't trust Williams as much after today. Who knows.

I think Williams totally mishandled this situation.

edit: also, it's funny that this comes up after everyone basically telling Harper last season that he needs to not play as hard.

I think it sends waves throughout the organization that if you don't play it out and up to the level of the competition, you aren't going to play.  I like the stern approach especially for a team that was basically run by no one for the past two seasons.  To many times last year, guys "took off plays" just like Harper did today and look at how that ended up.  I don't want great stat lines and overconfident d-bag prima donnas, I want to see winners.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 18063
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #77: April 19, 2014, 05:45:34 PM »
We sure looked like winners today, with our backup outfielder grounding out in Harper's spot with the tying and winning runs in scoring position.

Offline nobleisthyname

  • Posts: 2709
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #78: April 19, 2014, 05:47:07 PM »
I think it sends waves throughout the organization that if you don't play it out and up to the level of the competition, you aren't going to play.  I like the stern approach especially for a team that was basically run by no one for the past two seasons.  To many times last year, guys "took off plays" just like Harper did today and look at how that ended up.  I don't want great stat lines and overconfident d-bag prima donnas, I want to see winners.

So you believe Zimmerman will be benched when he does the exact same thing on his first ground out?

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 29487
  • King of Goodness
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #79: April 19, 2014, 05:56:15 PM »
I think it sends waves throughout the organization that if you don't play it out and up to the level of the competition, you aren't going to play.  I like the stern approach especially for a team that was basically run by no one for the past two seasons.  To many times last year, guys "took off plays" just like Harper did today and look at how that ended up.  I don't want great stat lines and overconfident d-bag prima donnas, I want to see winners.

This ^^^^^^ in spades...

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 63095
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #80: April 19, 2014, 06:16:32 PM »
Nice. He's working through a quad injury and Williams benches him for lack of hustle. I guess we're forgetting about him nearly getting decapitated at second not too long ago.

That should have been Matt Williams last game.

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

  • Posts: 4996
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #81: April 19, 2014, 06:27:25 PM »
This isn't the first time this year. Harper was probably on notice since he loafed a double into a triple against the Marlins. It was Harper's lack of hustle causing him to get pulled that possibly cost the game today, not Williams following through with his disciplinary action.

Or do we not want the players to be accountable and play hard?

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21603
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #82: April 19, 2014, 06:34:40 PM »
Or do we not want the players to be accountable and play hard?

More running through walls,  toughness good,  health bad,  Williams macho man

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #83: April 19, 2014, 06:36:32 PM »
so who wants to have the honor of starting the Fire Matt Williams thread?

Well remember, I started one, the day he was hired (it was a joke) but the Mods changed the title.



 if Williams can't get a simple message like 'run out grounds balls' without extreme measures like benching Harper in an important game,

I think the extreme measure was going public  and running his mouth after the game.  Particularly when he stressed a few days ago how strongly he believes in keeping that stuff in the locker room.  That was a huge mistake on his part that's going to bite him.   

Benching Harper was fine.  It reminded me of Casey Stengel benching Mantle for not running out a ground ball (on a doubleplay), in a game that eventually went extra innings and the Yankees lost.  But Casey didn't go running his mouth after the game, and things were fine.

Offline sportsfan882

  • Posts: 93631
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #84: April 19, 2014, 06:48:50 PM »
Yep, this move will surely backfire on us. freaking Matt Williams.

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

  • Posts: 4996
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #85: April 19, 2014, 07:06:11 PM »
Benching Harper was fine.  It reminded me of Casey Stengel benching Mantle for not running out a ground ball (on a doubleplay), in a game that eventually went extra innings and the Yankees lost.  But Casey didn't go running his mouth after the game, and things were fine.

How do we know about it if Casey Stengel didn't run his mouth?

Here's a quote I found on the matter from the AP recap:
"A crowd of 29,970, most of whom didn't stick it out to the finish, also saw angry Yankee Manager Casey Stengel yank Mickey Mantle out of the second game for failing to run out a ground ball. The blow up came in the sixth inning, after the Yankees had rallied for a 1-all tie and had a man on first with one out."

According to writers, Mantle never failed to run out a ground ball again. The Yankees also went on to win the pennant that year, though they did lose the game in which Mantle was yanked. I'm guessing the history of teams that coddle their young star players isn't as prestigious.

Offline Hogie

  • Posts: 567
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #86: April 19, 2014, 07:07:08 PM »
He was an awful hire. That should have been evident from day 1.

Offline PowerBoater69

  • Posts: 14264
    • Twitter
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #87: April 19, 2014, 07:10:55 PM »
About damn time:

5/1/2013
Quote from: PowerBoater69
Another one at first where Harper doesn't run it out.  Remember when all that kid did was hustle?
http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=29016.525;msg=1214435

7/14/2013
Quote from: PowerBoater69
I'd go with Desmond on that one.  I've seen several plays this year where Mr Run Until They Tag You has pulled up short running to first, which is not unusual, but a contrast to what he did last year.
http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=26425.725;msg=1274728

8/31/2013
The guy who's non-throwing error brain fart cost us the game last night also weighed in on Harper not running out plays at first. In a convoluted quote worthy of Jay Carney, Zimmm refuses to say that Bryce didn't run out the ground ball (something Harp has been guilty of all year), but did go as far as to say that players should run out ground balls.
http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=28852.25;msg=1305004

Offline DPMOmaha

  • Posts: 22875
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #88: April 19, 2014, 07:34:13 PM »
Every single veteran on this team has done the same thing Harper did today.
I don't think I've ever seen Desi or Zim or Werth or LaRoche do this. I don't watch every single inning of every game, so maybe you can find an instance, but this looks lazy to me.


Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 29487
  • King of Goodness
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #89: April 19, 2014, 07:35:04 PM »
I don't think I've ever seen Desi or Zim or Werth or LaRoche do this. I don't watch every single inning of every game, so maybe you can find an instance, but this looks lazy to me.

(Image removed from quote.)

Agreed...

Offline Canada

  • Posts: 436
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #90: April 19, 2014, 07:47:08 PM »
Yep. That's a joke. Hustle down the line Harper.

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 18482
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #91: April 19, 2014, 07:50:36 PM »
Williams should've junk punched him. No excuses

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

  • Posts: 4996
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #92: April 19, 2014, 08:01:56 PM »
I think it's funny that anyone would question what Williams did and give Harper a pass. How few of you remember what happened on August 30th, 2013, in a crucial game against the Mets? I know Randy Knorr remembers, who many on this board supported to get the managerial gig for being tough:

Quote from: CSN Washington
“The thing about Bryce right now that’s tough: He gets frustrated,” said bench coach Randy Knorr, who had to take over for an ill Davey Johnson mid-game. “I don’t think he does it intentionally, but he’s gonna have to start picking it up a little bit, because we’ve got everybody else doing it. He gets frustrated at times and it just comes out of him. It’s something we’ve got to fix.”
 

 
Though Harper won over the entire baseball world as a rookie with his nonstop energy and “run-until-they-tag-you” mantra, this wasn’t the first time this season others noted less hustle than they’ve become accustomed to from him. And it may be getting to the point where something has to be done.
 
“It’s hard for me to say,” Knorr said. “I’m not 20 years old in the big leagues and all this stuff going on around me. Something that we’ve got to get to the bottom of and keep talking to him, because eventually we’re just going to have to take him out of the game.”
 
Harper downplayed the incident, saying: “I guess I’ll learn from it.”

I was at the game Harper potentially cost the Nats on August 30, 2013 because of his frustration leading to a lack of hustle. This one didn't matter; the next one might. Davey didn't nip it in the bud; Matt Williams might.

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 18482
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #93: April 19, 2014, 08:02:44 PM »
Watch the Harper marketing arm go into damage control, next will be a MasterCard ad featuring Matt and Bryce.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 42504
  • Re-contending in 202...5?
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #94: April 19, 2014, 08:09:52 PM »
This weeks nats program has Harper hustle on the cover. The irony. 

Offline skippy1999

  • Posts: 19404
  • Believe!!!
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #95: April 19, 2014, 08:22:35 PM »
I don't think I've ever seen Desi or Zim or Werth or LaRoche do this. I don't watch every single inning of every game, so maybe you can find an instance, but this looks lazy to me.

(Image removed from quote.)

For real, on THIS play you expected Harper to bust ass down the line? The pitcher had the freaking ball in his hand!! Omgosh I'm sure there are some examples of Harper not hustling but this is the one his tough guy manager has a problem with? This is a joke, and Matt Williams looks like he's going to be as effective as Bobby Valentine was for the Sox two years ago :smh:

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 18482
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #96: April 19, 2014, 08:32:18 PM »
For real, on THIS play you expected Harper to bust ass down the line? The pitcher had the freaking ball in his hand!! Omgosh I'm sure there are some examples of Harper not hustling but this is the one his tough guy manager has a problem with? This is a joke, and Matt Williams looks like he's going to be as effective as Bobby Valentine was for the Sox two years ago :smh:

Out of the box. Leave your Boston horsecrap at the door or expect to be treated as a troll

Offline DPMOmaha

  • Posts: 22875
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #97: April 19, 2014, 08:36:00 PM »
For real, on THIS play you expected Harper to bust ass down the line? The pitcher had the freaking ball in his hand!! Omgosh I'm sure there are some examples of Harper not hustling but this is the one his tough guy manager has a problem with? This is a joke, and Matt Williams looks like he's going to be as effective as Bobby Valentine was for the Sox two years ago :smh:
Bust his ass down the line? No, he doesn't have to do that, but he has to look like he gives two craps, like he's ready to take advantage of a mistake by St. Louis, even if it is only a 1 in 10,000 chance. He didn't do that. This wasn't an isolated incident. It was the straw that broke the camels back.

Offline skippy1999

  • Posts: 19404
  • Believe!!!
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #98: April 19, 2014, 08:37:11 PM »
Out of the box. Leave your Boston horsecrap at the door or expect to be treated as a troll
Lol look I hope I'm wrong, I want Matt Williams to be a great manager but I'm just getting a bad feeling about him :( but fine I'll stop with any Sox comparisons

Offline Slumpbuster

  • Posts: 913
Re: The Matt Williams Effect
« Reply #99: April 19, 2014, 09:01:17 PM »
Agreed...

This was loafing w/ a capital L. A lot of/most players will ease up as they head down the line but he was taking a Sunday stroll right out of the box.
1st baseman have been known to bobble a throw over but with Harper giving up on the play so early the ball could have been rolled over.