Goodbye #2

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Those early teams had the highest payrolls in baseball

not higher than the Os, I think.  Let's pull the numbers.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

checking USA today, Os had the highest payroll in 1998, and 2d highest to the yankees in 1996 and 1997.  So, I was only right for one year.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/salaries/1996/team/all/

[UMDNats]

His last great season was '09.

Jeter led all of MLB in hits in 2012, but sure.

.316/.362/.429 that season, #3 wRC+ among SS. pretty damn impressive considering his age

[blue911]

We need Derek Jeter signs

[Dave B]

checking USA today, Os had the highest payroll in 1998, and 2d highest to the yankees in 1996 and 1997.  So, I was only right for one year.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/salaries/1996/team/all/

Even if

checking USA today, Os had the highest payroll in 1998, and 2d highest to the yankees in 1996 and 1997.  So, I was only right for one year.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/salaries/1996/team/all/

Even if the yankees were leading the league in payroll those days, they weren't lapping the pack like the were recently

[HalfSmokes]

Even if
Even if the yankees were leading the league in payroll those days, they weren't lapping the pack like the were recently

In 96, they were 3.5 times the bottom, that's not a small disparity

[Dave B]

In 96, they were 3.5 times the bottom, that's not a small disparity

But they weren't like 2x the place team. They had competition spending in their range. Who cares what the bottom does. Everyone else got to beat up on them too. The Yankees weren't an outlier

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Jeter led all of MLB in hits in 2012, but sure.

.316/.362/.429 that season, #3 wRC+ among SS. pretty damn impressive considering his age

that was a good season, but not a 6+ WAR season.  2009, he was a decent defender and who hit like a corner outfielder.  By 2012, he was a liability in the field, not simply neutral.  The .362 OBP with a .316 average shows he stopped drawing walks.  I'll agree, impressive considering his age, but compared to Zobrist, Desmond, Rollins, Reyes, and Andrus, he was short of the top when you value defense, and even without the D, he was behind Zobrist and Desmond.  2012 was a great BABIP year too.  The Lion in Winter. 

By the way, I had him on my AL fantasy team along with Zobrist and was very happy with my middle infield.

[imref]

Offensively, he's the fourth best SS of all time, only trailing Honus Wagner, Ernie Banks, and Cal Ripken.

That's pretty good company.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24446713/where-is-derek-jeter-among-all-time-greats-higher-than-i-thought

[Kevrock]

Roger Bernadina is retiring? Nooo.

[Minty Fresh]

Yankees suck.

[Clever]

So, where does the Shark stack up on the top 10 all-time CF? #2 behind Ryan Langerhans for me.

[mitlen]

So, where does the Shark stack up on the top 10 all-time CF? #2 behind Ryan Langerhans for me.

Mays, Mantle, Shark

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Offensively, he's the fourth best SS of all time, only trailing Honus Wagner, Ernie Banks, and Cal Ripken.

That's pretty good company.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24446713/where-is-derek-jeter-among-all-time-greats-higher-than-i-thought

per doyel (the writer). Cites batting average and OBP.  That's it.  ridiculous.  His unadjusted OPS is 10th, his wRC+ is 11th, heck, his average is below Nomar's.  Joe Cronin?  Just a troll article.  by rate stats, he's behind tulo and hanley offensively.  The jeter case is not a rate stat case.  It is a cumulative case.

[blue911]

He's a witch!

[imref]

Good chance his final home game gets rained out.

[comish4lif]

I don't mind the farewell tour, Jeter is arguably one of the ten best players in baseball history.  I've got no problem with the sendoff he's getting.

Ten best in history? He's barely a Ten best Yankee.

Ruth
Gehrig
DiMaggio
Mantle
Yogi
Whitey Ford
Rivera
Bill Dickey
Reggie
Winfield
Mattingly

[spidernat]

Jackson and Winfield do not belong ahead of Jeter. The only debate, IMO, is whether Jeter belongs 5th, 6th or 7th.

[imref]

Ruth
Gehrig
DiMaggio
Mantle
Yogi
-> Jeter (IMHO)
Whitey Ford
Rivera
Bill Dickey
Reggie
Winfield
Mattingly

[spidernat]

Ford should not be ahead of Rivera IMO and neither Jackson nor Winfield should rank ahead of Mattingly. But your list doesn't bode well for your earlier comment that Jeter is arguably a top ten all time player. 

[mitlen]

Ford should not be ahead of Rivera IMO and neither Jackson nor Winfield should rank ahead of Mattingly. But your list doesn't bode well for your earlier comment that Jeter is arguably a top ten all time player. 

I guess I'm more biased to Ford.   I'd place Jeter just behind him.    Rivera could also be ahead of Jeter.

[spidernat]

I guess I'm more biased to Ford.   

A strong case can be made for Ford over Rivera so I wouldn't squabble too much about it.

   I'd place Jeter just behind him.    Rivera could also be ahead of Jeter.

Agree.

[HalfSmokes]

Jackson is hard to me- he wasn't a yankee for long, but he was very successful during his time there, and they were terrible both before he got there and after he left

[spidernat]

That's the hype of NY. Jackson played twice as long for Oakland and as long with Anaheim.

[HalfSmokes]

That's the hype of NY. Jackson played twice as long for Oakland and as long with Anaheim.

he also helped turn around the yankees when they were terrible