The United's Stadium Deal

[1995hoo]

i'm just pointing out the different benefits to both parties, significant or not.

for the last question, it depends how many voters are fans. it would be fun to see the skins threaten to leave the area. totally different vibe for building them a stadium compared to one for nats and united. i wonder if even DC/MD/VA would collaborate on a deal to keep them somewhere in the DMV. or maybe they all just throw money at them to get them into their territory

What's funny about it is that in the realistic scheme of things, a stadium for the Nationals or United, or an arena for the Capitals and Bullets, is the type of venue that should more economic stimulus (if I may use that word without political connotations) to the area around the venue than a football stadium should. That is, the Nationals play 81 regular-season home games a year, plus usually one exhibition game and maybe postseason dates in the future. Throw in a few other events like a concert here and there and you're looking at a facility that might draw a good-sized crowd on between 80 and 100 nights a year. The Capitals and Bullets each play 41 regular-season home games, plus some preseason games, and the Capitals play postseason games as well; the Verizon Center is also heavily used for concerts and other events (such as the circus or the equestrian show), and I suppose Georgetown basketball and fairly frequent NCAA Tournament games are not to be overlooked, and then you have smaller-drawing events like job fairs or the Mystics. All told Verizon is probably in use well over 200 nights a year, perhaps a lot more than that. An MLS team plays a 17-game home regular season league schedule, but then you have various other events like the US Open Cup and maybe some international games (including both exhibitions and events like the CONCACAF Champions' League). DC United currently play some of those non-league games up in Maryland, but I'd wager that if they were to get their new stadium they'd play all their home games at the new stadium and not elsewhere. (Economically it makes fundamental sense to move the poorly-attended Open Cup games to a smaller venue due to the cost of opening RFK for those games, an issue that would be less of a problem at a new smaller stadium.) I wouldn't be surprised if a new United stadium drew some smaller concerts and the like. You wouldn't see Springsteen or U2 playing there, but some of the acts who might otherwise do just arenas and amphitheatres might view that sort of venue as an option.

But anyway, compare all that to a new stadium for the Redskins. They play eight regular-season home games plus two preseason every year; they used to have regular postseason games, but not recently. Figure a maximum of 12 Redskins games per year. Throw in a few college football games here and there, maybe a high-profile soccer exhibition or two, and perhaps two concerts a year depending on whether anyone's playing stadiums, and you get about 15 to 20 nights per year that sort of stadium is in use.

An NFL stadium simply doesn't make the same economic sense in terms of public funding as the other venues do because it doesn't generate the constant traffic in the stadium district that causes other businesses, such as all the restaurants and pubs near Verizon, to succeed.

Of course, I recognize there's something intangible that goes with the idea of an NFL team being THE key to a city being viewed as a "major league" city, plus the notion of civic pride and all that. I'm just trying to step back and think about it in terms of a more rational viewpoint in terms of the "vibe for building them a stadium." People are more eager to do it for the NFL team even though when you think about it from a practical standpoint the NFL team is the most irrational one for whom you would consider putting public funds towards a stadium.

[PowerBoater69]

i'm just pointing out the different benefits to both parties, significant or not.

for the last question, it depends how many voters are fans. it would be fun to see the skins threaten to leave the area. totally different vibe for building them a stadium compared to one for nats and united. i wonder if even DC/MD/VA would collaborate on a deal to keep them somewhere in the DMV. or maybe they all just throw money at them to get them into their territory

When the Skins wanted to build their own stadium both DC and Virginia said no, PG County was the third choice even though Cooke was spending his own money on the construction.  Somehow the United think that they are going to get better treatment than JKC.

[PowerBoater69]

An NFL stadium simply doesn't make the same economic sense in terms of public funding as the other venues do because it doesn't generate the constant traffic in the stadium district that causes other businesses, such as all the restaurants and pubs near Verizon, to succeed.

The United bring in up to a half million dollars per game in ticket sales, the Skins bring in up to $9 million.  So a full season of the United equals a single Redskins home game in tax revenue.

[Dave B]

The United bring in up to a half million dollars per game in ticket sales, the Skins bring in up to $9 million.  So a full season of the United equals a single Redskins home game in tax revenue.

it is about the constant traffic though. you cant build a bar or restaurant around a huge 8 game nfl crowd. you have to pay rent for the whole year. you could build a huge bar that is packed on sunday but 10% full otherwise. 40 dates, even with a much smaller crowd, is more predictable and easier to build a business around. and a soccer game is only 2 hours. if you have 6 hours to spend on recreation, the amount of outside-the-stadium recreation is almost double compared to a 3.5 to 4 hour football game by the time you get down from your nosebleed seats.

[HalfSmokes]

The goal (pipe dream?) is to have a stadium anchoring a neighborhood so that restaurants and bars don't have to rely on stadium traffic

[PowerBoater69]

The United got some great news today with the announcement of their new ownership group.  Some dude from Indonesia and another dude, both of which are minority owners in the 76ers, are taking over the franchise, reducing Chang to a minority owner.  The cash infusion should allow the team to build their own stadium and add the players needed to bring the MLS Cup back to the District.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/10/stadium-a-priority-for-dc-uniteds-new-ownership/?page=2

[GburgNatsFan]

Interesting that the stadium is likely to be just a stone's throw from Nats Park.

The United got some great news today with the announcement of their new ownership group.  Some dude from Indonesia and another dude, both of which are minority owners in the 76ers, are taking over the franchise, reducing Chang to a minority owner.  The cash infusion should allow the team to build their own stadium and add the players needed to bring the MLS Cup back to the District.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/10/stadium-a-priority-for-dc-uniteds-new-ownership/?page=2

[PowerBoater69]

Interesting that the stadium is likely to be just a stone's throw from Nats Park.

It would be a nice location but I wouldn't count it as the most likely spot yet.  The United are going to have to be creative in selecting a spot in a prime location where the current residents don't necessarily want to sell.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

The free federal land option wasn't attractive enough (and now DC has to take care of Poplar Point, one of The King of Ward 8's nages about investment anywhere else in town, most recently the H St NE streetcars).

[OldChelsea]

A hopeful sign anyway.

[PowerBoater69]

Since the wusses over at Big Soccer can't handle a discussion with anyone who doesn't fall in line with their party line about funding for the soccer stadium, I'm left to opine here.

Excerpts from the press release issued today:

In a compelling display of backing for a proposed D.C. United stadium at Buzzard Point, over 2,000 residents of Washington, D.C., have mobilized in less than three weeks to send over 27,000 emails to the District of Columbia Mayor and Council members.

2,000, small as it is, is highly inflated. I just signed up twice, as Mayor Gray and President Obama, and was happy to see that they accepted my word for it that I live in the city.

This grassroots movement, made up of local residents, community groups, and businesses, has organized to make its voice heard in support of plans for a new D.C. United stadium

Grassroots? Just the opposite, this whole thing was organized by team ownership that is based in Asia. The owner can't even be bothered to travel to DC (much less the US) to ask for the $200 million in person.

The current details of the proposal pave the way for a partnership that will transform Southwest Washington in the same way that Verizon Center reshaped and revitalized the Gallery Place neighborhood.

Big promise, of course it is more likely to result in development in the same way as the football stadium (none at all) or the baseball stadium (nothing so far within a block).

The proposal will generate $387 million in new tax revenue, create 870 construction jobs and 550 permanent jobs.

Union construction jobs from Maryland, minimal from the city. The permanent jobs are certainly inflated, and are also being shifted down the street from RFK, not created.

The District, which will lease the stadium site to D.C. United, will retain ownership of the land at the end of the lease period, at which point the property will likely be worth more than $700 million.

That's the biggest lie in the whole release, if the United's ownership thought that the land would increase to $700 million in value they'd be insisting on purchasing it themselves.

The new stadium will have many other uses besides professional soccer. It will host more than fifty events each year, including headline concerts, cultural events, school-age sports, college soccer, football, lacrosse, and more.

20 soccer games shifted over from RFK, some concerts poached from other local venues, and high school sports, where is the net gain for the city?

What I love about the United fans is that they keep insisting that they want the stadium because it is a great deal for the city, meanwhile they all support the corrupt to the core mayor because his opponents are against the public funding.

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/03/20/7016/d-c-united-fans-click-on-team-website-a-lot-to-support-stadium-film-at-11/

[HalfSmokes]

I wonder if a city would ever make a team put their development and permanent jobs claims in writing, ie if the team is lyingt they have to reimburse the city

[PowerBoater69]

I wonder if a city would ever make a team put their development and permanent jobs claims in writing, ie if the team is lyingt they have to reimburse the city

Gray's original deal had the United and the city profit sharing, giving breaks to the team if they don't hit their target numbers, and returning extra cash to the city if business is good. Fortunately that didn't last very long as the Council noted that the team wasn't going to open their books and couldn't be trusted to provide a true accounting. Meanwhile the current deal involves a multi-party land swap and pork sent to Barry's district to get his buy in. The team wants the deal to be as complicated as possible in order to obfuscate their shady dealings. So while guarantees would be nice, I'd rather see a simple and straight-forward deal where the city pays for the environmental clean-up and infrastructure improvements and the team pays for the land and building costs.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Funny about these press releases about jobs created. Here's one for you - rank these in order of permanent jobs rpopjections . . .

Keystone XL Pipeline, DCU's stadium, MGM's Casino at National Harbor.

Here's a hint - they differ by 2 orders of magnitude.

Keystone XL - 35 permanent jobs, DC United stadium - 550, just the casino at National harbor - 4000 (http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/local-news/mgm-resorts-jim-murren-talks-national-harbor-casinos-and-crabcakes.php)

[PowerBoater69]

Funny about these press releases about jobs created. Here's one for you - rank these in order of permanent jobs rpopjections . . .

Keystone XL Pipeline, DCU's stadium, MGM's Casino at National Harbor.

Here's a hint - they differ by 2 orders of magnitude.

Keystone XL - 35 permanent jobs, DC United stadium - 550, just the casino at National harbor - 4000 (http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/local-news/mgm-resorts-jim-murren-talks-national-harbor-casinos-and-crabcakes.php)

The pipeline and casino estimates look legit, can't take a lot of people to operate a pipe, and a casino is a huge operation running day and night year round. The stadium will be open for a few hours a day for a few days a year, no chance they have that many full time employees, and those that they do have will be moving over from RFK.