Author Topic: Economy  (Read 1949 times)

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Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #25: January 23, 2008, 09:16:06 AM »
Couldn't just put your mortgage on your Visa card?

Naw, why do that?  Use the Bush method, put it on your neighbor's Visa card.

Offline Dave B

  • Posts: 6033
Re: Economy
« Reply #26: January 23, 2008, 09:26:10 AM »
Another example of how theses percentages add up is when I was doing day trading.  I set a goal of 1% per day, generally making it in increments of less than 25 cents/per share per trade.  My best year, I made 1,394%.  It sounds like a lot, but it really doesn't take much to get there.  Take 261 weekdays per year, and then knock off about 11 for non-trading days, and use a nice round number of 250 trading days.  Then take 1.01 (making 1% per day) to the 250th power.  Subtract the original 1.00 from the result, and you would have a yield of 1,103% - every dollar earned $11 more, and you ended the year with $12.  Making a measly 3/10 of one percent per day would more than double your money.


You never had any days of losses? I started to try this two weeks ago with a dow jones avg ETF (DIA). I think I bought in at like 12700.  Yeah well that didnt work out so well. Maybe I just need to reset my floor or equilibrium point. But who knows where it is.

What kinds of things were you day trading in that let you buy fractions of a share?





Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #27: January 23, 2008, 09:31:50 AM »
This is exporting inflation to every country with a currency pegged to the $US, which includes our "friends" in  the Gulf region, which we once again pissed off.  If they move off the $US peg, which there is increasing pressure for them to do, well, just bend over.

Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #28: January 23, 2008, 10:04:38 AM »
You never had any days of losses? I started to try this two weeks ago with a dow jones avg ETF (DIA). I think I bought in at like 12700.  Yeah well that didnt work out so well. Maybe I just need to reset my floor or equilibrium point. But who knows where it is.

What kinds of things were you day trading in that let you buy fractions of a share?

I had some losses, but I just minimized them.  I've been force to accept small losses, but prevent being force to accept even moderate losses.  When I buy in, I immediately set a sell at 1% below the price I bought in at just in case I made a bone-headed mistake.  That sell price can only move up, never down. Once I start getting a profit, I generally set a sell at one-half to one percent below the day's close.  If it fell by 1/4%, I'll keep the previous day's sell point - I never reset the sell point lower.  I sold off gold at 882 a few minutes ago, and will be buying it back if it hits 872 (which may change depending on volatility today). [EDIT:  The gold didn't sell, I must have mis-read the price ticker (not wearing my glasses as I can't remember where I left them last night) - but it will sell if it does hit 882 today unless I see it go up substantially mid-day and then reset the sell price higher.]

When I was day trading, I wasn't buying and selling fractions of shares, but fractions of dollars.  For example, even on a relatively dormant stock, I'd buy at 20.12, sell at 20.25, by again at 20.00, sell at 20.18.  A stock could not move at all between it's opening and closing price, or even drop, and I could still pull a decent profit.  Of course, it is a lot easier in a rising market.  When I saw the first pin-prick in NASDAQ in March, 2000, I jumped out of In 1999, Dollar Thrifty Rental car was going in 6-week cycles of 17-22-17-22.  You could buy at 17, 3 weeks later sell at 22, another 3 weeks later buy at 17, another 3 weeks later sell at 22.  If you can get a 1999 chart of them, I them their symbol was DTG, it looks like a perfect saw-tooth pattern.  Every six weeks you could make over 29%.  Compounding, your return would have been 835% on a stock that had a maximum move of 29.4%.

I couldn't find a 1999 chart, but it looks like they went into a similar mode in late 2003 and early 2004.




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Offline Dave B

  • Posts: 6033
Re: Economy
« Reply #29: January 23, 2008, 10:30:36 AM »
When I was day trading, I wasn't buying and selling fractions of shares, but fractions of dollars.  For example, even on a relatively dormant stock, I'd buy at 20.12, sell at 20.25, by again at 20.00, sell at 20.18.  A stock could not move at all between it's opening and closing price, or even drop, and I could still pull a decent profit.  Of course, it is a lot easier in a rising market.  When I saw the first pin-prick in NASDAQ in March, 2000, I jumped out of In 1999, Dollar Thrifty Rental car was going in 6-week cycles of 17-22-17-22.  You could buy at 17, 3 weeks later sell at 22, another 3 weeks later buy at 17, another 3 weeks later sell at 22.  If you can get a 1999 chart of them, I them their symbol was DTG, it looks like a perfect saw-tooth pattern.  Every six weeks you could make over 29%.  Compounding, your return would have been 835% on a stock that had a maximum move of 29.4%.

I couldn't find a 1999 chart, but it looks like they went into a similar mode in late 2003 and early 2004.


What I'm saying is:

If you start out with 50 shares at 100 dollars then sell 50 shares at 101, you now have 5050 dollars and can only buy 50 shares again when the price drops to 100.  What did you do with the extra 50 dollars if you couldnt buy 50.5 shares, taking advantage of all your money?

Did you wait till you made another 50 and then buy one more whole share?  Isnt it kinda hard to sell weird increments like 101 shares as opposed to nice round ones like 100?

Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #30: January 23, 2008, 11:29:36 AM »
What I'm saying is:

If you start out with 50 shares at 100 dollars then sell 50 shares at 101, you now have 5050 dollars and can only buy 50 shares again when the price drops to 100.  What did you do with the extra 50 dollars if you couldnt buy 50.5 shares, taking advantage of all your money?

Did you wait till you made another 50 and then buy one more whole share?  Isnt it kinda hard to sell weird increments like 101 shares as opposed to nice round ones like 100?

There haven't been any restrictions on odd lots, such as 101 shares, for over 10 years.  Even when there were, the restrictions were higher broker fees.  The dropping of those higher fees is one of the things that opened up the day trading "industry."

There are times when there is change left over for a trade.  But, in day trading, you generally only holding the shares for no more than a couple minutes, often under 30 seconds.  You can buy and sell 100 shares all day long, just leaving the profits in a money market, or, if you want, put more shares into the day's program.  I used two computers, one for long positions and the other for sales.  Once I went into a long position, I click on the other to put in the sell order and stop loss order while setting up another buy order on the original "long-position" computer and another sell position on the sale computer.  Usually by 10:30 or 11:00, I'd have made my 1% and called it a day.  I had one real lucky hit once, when I bought a chip company, I think it was a wireless chip with a symbol DSL of all things, at something like 24 just as Intel was announcing a buyout.  It skipped right over my sell price and sold at something like 35 about a minute later. [EDIT: The symbol was DSP, bought at 27.125, sold at 35.750 38 seconds later on 10/14/99]

With longer term trades, it's pretty much the same, just a much slower set of transactions.  For example, I rarely have more than four gold transactions a day, and often go several days without anything other than resetting sell and re-purchase prices.  While quoted in ounces, gold is generally sold in much smaller increments in order to prevent leaving $800+ idle in a money market.  Streettracks Gold (GLD), for example, trades gold in 1/10 of an ounce increments.

The biggest problem with day trading was the enormous number of transactions you have to track for tax purposes.  It's really bad if you file your taxes on extension, and that extension day you file is the same day your local post office gets hit with the first of the anthrax attacks after 9/11.  What happens then is that your tax return never gets delivered and the IRS only receives the Forms 1099 from your broker.  Then they send you a letter demanding a payment in the amount of the value of every house in your neighborhood.

One other thing to watch out for is that if you buy a stock, sell at a loss, and buy the same stock back within 30 days it is called a wash sale, and the loss is not directly deductible.  The IRS issued a new ruling on this yesterday, but I haven't yet had a chance to read it, so some of the details have likely changed.  From preliminary reports, it sounds like the rule has been expanded in order to increase taxes on certain IRAs.

Also, those that are getting clobbered in this market, taking huge losses, will find that the vast majority of their losses, regardless of how long they've held the shares, will not be deductible this year.  The IRS will make them spread their losses out over several years.


Offline saltydad

  • Posts: 3722
Re: Economy
« Reply #31: January 23, 2008, 05:28:25 PM »
Hey NatsAddict, below is Myerson's column from today's Post. I'd be interested in your much more informed opinion of what he says. Thanks.

The GOP's Security Gap
 
By Harold Meyerson
Wednesday, January 23, 2008; Page A19

The conventional wisdom on this year's election is that John McCain would be the strongest candidate the Republicans could send against the Democrats come November. I believe it myself. And yet, as the economy continues to deflate, the prospects for a McCain presidency are deflating as well.

The affable McCain has on more than one occasion affably admitted that the economy is not his strong suit. It's an admission you can make when you're confident that your bona fides on national security will eclipse your economic deficiencies. And that confidence is evident in McCain's view of the world, and of himself. The "transcendent challenge" of our time, he says in his stump speech, is "radical Islamic terrorism." Given that, who better to fight it than McCain?

But suppose we face challenges that are just as great and defining as those that McCain highlights. Suppose, come fall, that American voters are also concerned about the immediate soundness of the economy -- that is, their jobs, incomes, health coverage and ability to put their kids through college. Suppose that their anxiety over the long-term prospects of the U.S. economy -- over the long-term prospects of America itself -- mounts every time that our banks and other major businesses sell chunks of themselves to Middle Eastern oil interests and the Chinese state.

McCain's first crack at a stimulus package stressed a theme he has sounded throughout his career -- reining in federal spending on projects earmarked in congressional appropriations. Whatever the merits of McCain's proposal in general, however, its effect today would be to further deflate our already tanking economy. It's an anti-stimulus proposal. If McCain, in arguing for the surge in Iraq, had proposed arming our troops with pom-poms, it would have been no less ludicrous than his proposal to cut spending at a time when lending is sharply contracting.

That said, I don't think the various candidates' stimulus packages will matter that much as voters sort out their primary preferences. What's vexing voters is anxiety that America's economic preeminence has peaked -- that our major banks and corporations have exported our productive capacities to China, even as our dependence on oil is exporting our consumption capacities to the Middle East. No xenophobia is required to note that America's rise as a 19th-century industrial power was largely funded by British capital, that as the economic powerhouse of the 20th century, America funded the rise of other nations' economies, and that today, some of those nations are funding us so we can keep buying goods and commodities from them.

This is where McCain's narrative of what ails our economy -- indeed, all the Republicans' narratives of what ails the economy -- is woefully off point. Like his fellow GOP candidates, McCain stresses the need to aid American business in getting our economy back on track.

This is unexceptionable as far as it goes, except that it's the offshoring proclivities of American big business that to a large degree landed us in this fix in the first place. Tax breaks to businesses must be conditioned on their using those funds to stimulate Cincinnati, not Shenzhen. And if we really wish to create good jobs at home, the kind of "mega-greening" projects that the Democrats are talking up are far more likely than across-the-board corporate tax cuts to deliver the goods. (To his credit, McCain favors creating green jobs; to his discredit, he favors those across-the-board corporate tax cuts.) The larger question -- one that Americans have never had to consider -- is this: What constitutes national security at a time when the American economy may be declining while the economies of such nations as China and Saudi Arabia, whose values are quite distinct from ours, are expanding at our expense? Is a national security candidate, or a national security party, really one that keeps us in Iraq while lagging behind in supporting research and development of alternative energy sources? Is it in our national security interest to say and do nothing when U.S. multinationals in China actively oppose granting labor rights to Chinese workers, something that could create a crack in the Communist Party's control?

Until now, Americans' discussions of national security have taken our economic preeminence as the Great Given. But unless the Republican national security hawks show some inkling of understanding that Wall Street and many U.S.-based multinationals have enriched themselves and our nation's rivals at America's expense, they are not really national security hawks at all. And Democrats, reluctant as they too may be to break with Wall Street, will wrest at least some of the security mantle -- and quite possibly the White House -- from the Republicans' grasp

Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #32: January 23, 2008, 10:48:04 PM »
I agree with much of the article, but other parts are ludicrous.  It's a long response, and I'm too tired to proof it, so I hope it makes some sense.

As for McCain's economics, one defining moment for him was during the 2000 debates.  In response to a question about Alan Greenspan, McCain stated something along the lines of, “If Greenspan passed away, I'd have him stuffed and put back in as Fed Chairman.”  Unfortunately, being ignorant, most politicians would, at the time, given a similar answer.  Heck, Bill Clinton at the time appointed the moron to another six g*dforsaken years.  I am thrilled that finally even the wonderdummies in the media have recognized that the “Maestro,” as an individual, is one of the worst to ever hold a position of power or influence in our history.  Heck, even today's Barrons had this to say about Greenspan (original source sited):

"In America (the place where lying with statistics achieved official government status, thanks to the loathsome Alan Greenspan, the worst central banker in the history of central banking,"
Daily Reckoning

Since I've despised Greenspan since he was first appointed by Reagan, hearing McCain make this statement didn't win him any points with me.  But, as for the spending cuts, I do believe McCain is on the right track, I just have some doubts as to whether he knows why.  More on this in a bit.

When Myerson makes the supposition that Americans are concerned with the immediate soundness of the economy, he stumbles across a major problem without recognizing it.  That problem is that most Americans are only concerned about the immediate soundness of the economy, and don't think of the consequences of their desires for instant gratification.  When compounded with the ignorance of economics, and a political system that prefers to keep the populace in the dark, it permits the politician to provide horrendous solutions that make for good sound bytes without ever entering the realm  of reality.  This is a major problem, and is one sited in the aforementioned Barron's article.


Myersons concern about about the foreign control of our financial infrastructure are real.  One of the  consequences of our massive spending and debt is an abundance of weak $US in foreign hands.  The  GCC countries just put together $2 trillion is Sovereign Wealth Funds – money used to buy US assets.      In the last hour of trading today, the DJIA rose well over 500 points.  Yet, the funds didn't come from commodities or the bond markets.  Hmm, did Americans have a few trillion dollar stuck in our pockets, or did this all come from offshore?  Worse, while the collapse has been very broadbased, todays little  bounce was primarily our financial infrastructure companies (JP Morgan Chase lead all with over nearly a 12% gain, followed by Citi with 8%.  A question in a Republican, I believe the October 9 debate, was if there were any national security concerns with the Middle East SWFs taking over our financial instructure.  Paul, Huckabee, and I think it was Tancredo, were the only ones who recognized any danger in this.  The others, including McCain, all had virtually no national security concerns about it.  In addition to McCain, Romney and Giuliani,  as well as drop-outs Thompson, Brownback, Hunter, all flunked miserably on that question.  We've already lost control over the value of our currency, and these morons not only didn't recognize that, they are willing to cede control over our financial markets and banking system as well.  In short, they are willing to cede total control of all aspects of the economy other than our tax code to the GCC states.

The tax code and spending – this is where Myerson has no business writing on topic for which he has shown no understanding.  I could write a book on this, and have already written yet another dissertation, so I'll try to keep this short (yeah, right).

There are two types of taxes that I believe should be eliminated immediately: payroll taxes and corporate income taxes.  Our payroll taxes, as stated in another thread, make us less competitive than all other industrialized countries by forcing taxes into the production cost of our goods and services.  If we can eliminate those taxes, as well as corporate income taxes, from our production cost, with our productivity, our labor cost would be 8% less than that of Mexico.  Further, payroll taxes are the most unfair taxes in our system.  Most workers pay 7.65% (6.2% social security, 1.45% medicare) of their gross income every friggin day of the year to payroll taxes.  Worse yet, they pay income taxes on those payroll taxes they never receive.  Now, take somebody making $250,000.  They pay social security taxes for a little over five months of the year.  Somebody making $500,000  is done paying those taxes in mid-March.  The Wall Streeters that Myerson is so worried about appeasing on the average, pay those taxes for a whopping 10 days a year.  The payroll taxes are the most unfair of all taxes we have, and also hurt our productivity the most.

As for corporate income taxes, corporations don't pay income taxes.  People do.  When you tax Exxon, Exxon isn't paying the taxes.  The taxes shown on Exxon's income statement are paid by the shareholders, the vast majority of which are retirement funds.  Hey, if you want to knock Ali's 401(k) down a bit more, vote for Hillary.  Further still, like the payroll taxes, those income taxes are built into the cost of everything we manufacture, with the cost passed on to the consumer.  I wouldn't cut corporate income taxes, I'd eliminate them.  This would also provide the benefit of bringing corporate operations back to this country.  We are the only country that taxes corporations on their foreign income.  When Daimler and Chrysler merged, the headquarters went to Germany because, as their VP and tax counsel testified to Congress, our corporate income tax code would result in them paying a total of 67.5% in corporate income taxes, and Germany's code would put them in a 44% bracket.  Get rid of our corporate income taxes, and well have to have a lottery to see which companies are allowed to move (back) to the US.  Our tax code is what is driving businesses off our shores.

Now, you want a boost the the economy?  The proposals made by our leaders and wannabes for president have worthless one-time rebates of $70 to $150 billion.  With the taxes I just eliminated, I put a recurring $500 billion in tax preparation and planning savings back into the economy.

Of course, those taxes would have to be replaced.  Just be sure to replace them with post-production taxes, preferably the plan that Huckabee supports.  Short of that, since all taxes are eventually assessed on individuals, it would most likely have to come in the form of an income tax.  Just be sure to put the entire increase on the upper end, and let the lower end drive the economy, and hopefully even save a little bit, with the additional 7.65% of their gross pay they are taking home.  One other thing, replacing the corporate income taxes will not be that difficult – they are a small percentage of our tax collections.

The payroll taxes are more substantial, and have another problem associated with them.  Under our current laws, social security and medicare must be paid from taxes collected for those purposes (however, Johnson made it so taxes collected for those purposes can be used for any purposes).  At the end of fiscal 2000, our liability for social security payments was $20 trillion.  At the end of 2007, that had jumped to $53 trillion.  It's going up at 15% annually.  Since this liability, which starts being paid this year, is growing so rapidly and must be funded from payroll taxes, are you ready for a doubling or tripling of the payroll taxes?  That will not only bankrupt our middle and lower classes, it will destroy our ability to compete in the global market.

As for the spending cuts, they are necessary in order to achieve any semblance of economic stability.  The uncontrolled spending has saturated the world with $US, and then destroyed the value of the $US.  That is what created the security problem of having the foreign countries take control over our infrastructure (and, contrary to Myerson's belief, corporations didn't move offshore on a whim, they did  so for a reason – our asinine tax code that makes us non-competitive).  We no longer have the relative luxury of even shrinking our deficits – they must be turned into surpluses.  The tax code revisions I mentioned above would expand our economy immensely, which would generate more revenues, which could be used to cut spending if we have a president and a Congress that are fiscally responsible and don't use new revenues on new spending programs.

Under our current system, any new spending programs are going to result in higher interest rates are our foreign investment funding is dwindling quite rapidly, falling way short last year.  So, if we can't borrow, we have two solutions: hyper-inflation or raising taxes.  Just as tax cuts, especially well targeted tax cuts unlike those Bush has implemented, can provide a stimulus, tax hikes do the opposite and are detrimental to the economy – especially since our tax system is pre-production, and will drive even more jobs offshore.

Also, government spending take away monies that could be in the marketplace already stimulating the economy.  When the government gets a dollar, it reduces the number of times that dollar turns over in a year by 67%.  Turnover is when you earn a dollar, and buy a loaf of bread.  That dollar is then used to pay somebody else, who then uses it and pays somebody else.  In short, that one dollar is spent in the marketplace over 20 times in a year.  That one dollar added $20 to the economy.  When that dollar goes to the government, it turns over an average of about 7 times a year, adding only $7 to the economy.  That little government spending program actually cut the economic stimulus by 67%.  Every dollar cut from spending and added to the marketplace provides and economic stimulus.  McCain is correct, but I doubt he knows why.

Additionally, with the necessary changes to our tax code unlikely since we haven't had a statesman in DC in in decades, we are faced with either cutting spending or being extraordinarily stupid and raising taxes.  We cannot just spend like we have for the past seven years.  And, giving out these stupid tax rebates is worthless.  One the average, every household will get about $1,300.  We don't have a demand problem, we have a problem in that for 3 straight years we have had a negative savings rate – with our insatiable appetites, as individuals we've followed our government's example and spent more than we've earned for three straight years.  Where will most of this go?  To pay bills to the banking industry and financial services companies that our politicians are catering to.  It's another bail-out disguised as as stimulus package.  We just took 1% of our GDP, and handed it over to the financial services industry.  There is nothing whatsoever in the package that will create a single new job.  There is not one single thing in the package, or any of the proposed packages, that has any long-term impact other than to further devalue the $US and create inflation.

However, for the long term, significantly cutting the annual deficits, or preferably running surpluses, will have a long-term impact on our economy, provide stability, increase our economic and national security, our economic  sovereignty, and thus provide a permanent foundation for economic stimulus.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

  • Posts: 17674
  • babble on
Re: Economy
« Reply #33: January 23, 2008, 11:08:27 PM »
"Sovereign Wealth Funds" (depicted in rotary flight) graced the cover of the Economist this week, so I guess that's the crap on a stick right now...good luck turning that into a marketable bit of political capital. 

Amazing how this has come around...I remember flipping through a paper (NYT?) that someone had left at the Pho75 in Rosslyn back in '99 or so, and seeing an article about how Greenspan was more popular than Bono.  Haw haw.

Offline saltydad

  • Posts: 3722
Re: Economy
« Reply #34: January 24, 2008, 12:07:14 AM »
Thanks! I'm in the process of slowly trying to incorporate this with my non-economics trained mind (Dad was the economist). This is all new but fascinating stuff for me. What's amazing to me is that well educated smart folks can have such radically different views of what the "dismal science" tells us to do. It appears that economics can be viewed thru a political prism, but the question is can politics be fairly viewed through an economic one?

Offline 2IPAs

  • Posts: 922
  • Barbie luvs the Nationals!
Re: Economy
« Reply #35: January 24, 2008, 07:41:53 AM »
I'll add my thanks to Salty's for your analysis, Natsaddict.

As for the rebates, I was amused and saddened by Lou Dobbs' observation last night that those checks would probably stimulate China's enconomy more than ours.

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 18488
Re: Economy
« Reply #36: January 24, 2008, 08:30:02 AM »
I thought war economies were supposed to stimulate the economy. What will happen to our economy when we leave Iraq? We've had recessions after every war during the 20th century, why would this be different?

Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #37: January 24, 2008, 10:15:31 AM »
I thought war economies were supposed to stimulate the economy. What will happen to our economy when we leave Iraq? We've had recessions after every war during the 20th century, why would this be different?

Other wars have caused a much more broad-based tooling-up in manufacturing.  Now, very few industrials are involved as the human and material investment is nowhere near the size it was in earlier wars, and there is no new tooling-up to create new jobs.  Then, when the earlier wars were over, in addition to a massive number of troops returning home, those wartime manufacturing jobs were no longer necessary, which created an employment problem.  This is a significant part of the reason that some troops were waiting in Europe for nearly a year after the VE day to come home.

Further, for those that do get a piece of today's wartime manufacturing pie, a sizeable portion of what they manufacture is manufactured offshore.  A huge portion of our military aircraft parts and maintenance  in the region are serviced by Standard Aero, which, thanks to the Carlyle Group and its nasty habit of selling our manufacturing infrastructure to the GCC states (just for kicks, Google "Carlyle Group" and take a peek at some of the the first page of hits - being sure to catch what is probably the most informative and balanced one, which is by SourceWatch), is owned by Dubai Aerospace.  Further, when you look at the peace-time military costs vs wartime military cost, and then look at the reported size of contracts to private interests, a huge portion of the wartime supplement to  military spending is being outsourced to private interests and provides virtually no economic stimulus on shore.

One problem we may face as we bring the troops home is that many of them are in the National Guard.  If those National Guardsmen want their old  jobs back, they get them, as they should.  However, this will displace those who have filled those jobs.  However, the troops size is relatively small, and the national impact will be small although the personal impact for those affected will be great.




Quote
Dubai Aerospace to buy Standard Aero
(Reuters)
2 April 2007

NEW YORK - Dubai Aerospace will buy Standard Aero Holdings Inc. and Piedmont/Hawthorne Holdings Inc. from private equity firm Carlyle Group [CYL.UL] for $1.8 billion, Standard Aero said on Monday in a regulatory filing.

It said $1.034 billion of the total purchase price will be allocated to the purchase of Standard Aero.
Khaleej Times

As for Standard Aero, this is from its homepage:

Quote
Standard Aero is a leading supplier of services to the global aerospace, defense and energy industries. We have over 2,500 employees in six different countries, with our main operations located in the United States, Canada and the Netherlands. We operate a diversified business portfolio in two main markets:
   
   We provide comprehensive maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) services on a wide range of gas turbine engines to more than 1,400 customers worldwide. Most of the engines we repair and overhaul are used on regional, military and business aircraft and helicopters. This market is serviced by our Standard Aero Commercial and Military Divisions, consisting of over seven engine businesses and by our Standard Aero Material business.
 
   We provide a full range of energy solutions, comprehensive services and turbine maintenance for industrial gas turbines and power packages in the 2 to 20 MW range for Energy, Oil & Gas and Marine applications. This market is serviced by our Standard Aero Energy business.

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 18488
Re: Economy
« Reply #38: January 24, 2008, 10:46:17 AM »
Let me get this straight. We are fighting in a war, funded by US tax dollars where much of the economic benefit is being reaped overseas?  Somewhere there has to be somebody that understands that when you go to war, you don't outsource your capabilities of resuppling your troups.

Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #39: January 24, 2008, 11:26:50 AM »
Let me get this straight. We are fighting in a war, funded by US tax dollars where much of the economic benefit is being reaped overseas?  Somewhere there has to be somebody that understands that when you go to war, you don't outsource your capabilities of resuppling your troups.

Your understanding is correct.  The GCC economies are greatly diversifying from energy.  I think it is the Dubai where energy in now only 30% of its economy.

Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #40: January 24, 2008, 11:38:40 AM »
Quote
Kuwait body eyes US financial, property sectors
24 January 2008


DAVOS - Kuwait’s investment authority sees the current credit crisis as an investment opportunity and is eyeing the U.S. financial and real estate sectors, the body’s managing director said on Thursday.

“This is a pure investment opportunity,” Bader Al Sa’ad told reporters on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum in Davos.

Asked what areas the Kuwait Investment Authority was interested in, he replied: “In the financial sector and real estate sector.”

He said the investment authority had not diversified out of the United States because “this opportunity doesn’t come every day”.

He added the authority had not been invited to take part in a private-sector rescue for British mortgage lender Northern Rock, which has been forced to seek help after being hit by the global credit crunch.

On Monday, Britain set a two-week deadline for a private-sector rescue of Northern Rock that would allow the bank’s 25 billion pound emergency funding to be converted to government-guaranteed bonds to help smooth the deal.
Khaleej Times (UAE)

Offline kimnat

  • Posts: 7172
Re: Economy
« Reply #41: January 24, 2008, 05:52:08 PM »
Dan just said we could get something about a "rebate" of $1,200 and there could be more for each kid or something.  Dang!  While I like "free money"  won't that sorta nearly "bankrupt" the country?

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 18488
Re: Economy
« Reply #42: January 24, 2008, 06:38:03 PM »
Dan just said we could get something about a "rebate" of $1,200 and there could be more for each kid or something.  Dang!  While I like "free money"  won't that sorta nearly "bankrupt" the country?

I want to who the feds mugged to get the money? We are trillions in debt and don't have a balanced budget, so they had to steal the money.

Offline tomterp

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  • Posts: 33784
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Re: Economy
« Reply #43: January 24, 2008, 09:15:34 PM »
Dan just said we could get something about a "rebate" of $1,200 and there could be more for each kid or something.  Dang!  While I like "free money"  won't that sorta nearly "bankrupt" the country?

that would almost pay for some Nats parking!!

nospinzone1

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Re: Economy
« Reply #44: January 24, 2008, 09:18:56 PM »
WHY WORRY? WE WILL JUST STIFF ALL THOSE FOREIGNERS RICH COUNTRIES THAYT ARE BUYING INTO OUR CORPORATIONS AND BUYING OUR BONDS....LEARNED THAT FROM KASTRO.

Offline nats2playoffs

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Re: Economy
« Reply #45: January 25, 2008, 02:12:37 PM »
I had some losses, but I just minimized them.  I've been forced to accept small losses, but prevent being force to accept even moderate losses.  When I buy in, I immediately set a sell at 1% below the price I bought in at just in case I made a bone-headed mistake.  That sell price can only move up, never down. Once I start getting a profit, I generally set a sell at one-half to one percent below the day's close.  If it fell by 1/4%, I'll keep the previous day's sell point - I never reset the sell point lower... When I was day trading, I wasn't buying and selling fractions of shares, but fractions of dollars.

Have you ever traded in the futures and commodities markets?  It's much more volatile, because people are trading on margin, in which they actually put up tiny fractions of what they control.  If you're trading on the stock index futures, they also trade overnight and can open here dramatically lower or higher than the last closing price, based on news or other speculation. 

Your self discipline to limit losses is something most traders do NOT possess.  People are drawn to the possibility of making a LOT of money very fast, but they forget that they can ALSO lose a lot VERY fast.  Most small traders get financially wiped out within a year.  If a particular market is going haywire, the exchanges will raise the margin requirements, without notice, which immediately throws small traders out who can't meet the new margin requirements, making the market movement even MORE frenzied.  Futures trading is NOT "investing," but it is speculating.


Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4099
Re: Economy
« Reply #46: January 25, 2008, 03:44:29 PM »
Have you ever traded in the futures and commodities markets?  It's much more volatile, because people are trading on margin, in which they actually put up tiny fractions of what they control.  If you're trading on the stock index futures, they also trade overnight and can open here dramatically lower or higher than the last closing price, based on news or other speculation. 

Your self discipline to limit losses is something most traders do NOT possess.  People are drawn to the possibility of making a LOT of money very fast, but they forget that they can ALSO lose a lot VERY fast.  Most small traders get financially wiped out within a year.  If a particular market is going haywire, the exchanges will raise the margin requirements, without notice, which immediately throws small traders out who can't meet the new margin requirements, making the market movement even MORE frenzied.  Futures trading is NOT "investing," but it is speculating.

(Image removed from quote.)

For the last few years I've been trading heavily on the commodities and forex markets, with only the occasional entry into the equities and bond markets, which are much more susceptible to wild emotion.  When I was heavily into equities, I hated being in a long position overnight.  I went on a vacation to Green Turtle, and held a small but significant enough long position.  I figured I'd just keep tabs on things.  I got there, and my Palm Pilot had no service.  Good enough, I'd go online.  No phone in the room.  In fact, the front desk and the kitchen had the only phones on the island.  I hopped in a golf cart (no cars as no gas stations other than for boats on the island) and drove down to the store to check on my postion, only to find they only get a Sunday paper.  I went to the bank - it was only open two days a week, and this wasn't one of them.  Thank G*d for Miss Emily's Blue Bee Bar and the Goombay Smash. 

I really don't invest at all.  Everything I buy I plan on selling in a short-term, and therefore don't swing for the fences.