Washington Redskins Thread (2012)

[HalfSmokes]

If we've done a good job in the Draft and free agency for the past three years,  the playoffs are reasonable,  if the pundits are right and we suck,  the we didn't do a good job in the Draft or free agency

[Terpfan76]

If we've done a good job in the Draft and free agency for the past three years,  the playoffs are reasonable,  if the pundits are right and we suck,  the we didn't do a good job in the Draft or free agency

With a rookie qb in one of the toughest divisions in football? I just think you're expecting too much. It's not reasonable to expect that 13 years of mismanagement can be fixed in two or three offseasons.

[HalfSmokes]

With a rookie qb in one of the toughest divisions in football? I just think you're expecting too much. It's not reasonable to expect that 13 years of mismanagement can be fixed in two or three offseasons.

the qb is a rookie because the coach choose to wait- I'm not blaming RGIII if we don't make the playoffs, but I don't see why shanny gets a pass for waiting. Playoffs doesn't mean I'm expecting an elite team- it's the nfl, half the teams make the playoffs.

[Tribe Time]

Why are you here?

You post anti-Nats and anti-Skins rants... And you expect people to take you seriously?

I post "anti-Nats" rants?  really?  Document them for me.  I have been pro-Nats considering I am a big fan of them.  The only posts I criticized them on was the Suzuki move and the Charlie and Dave thread.  But that's in the past.   

I've never liked the Skins nor most of their fans.  Not required to.  This is a NATS forum.  I absolutely despise the city of pittsburgh, their teams, and their fans.  No one said we have to like other cities fans, teams or people on here.  Hell, I see quite a bit of hatred towards philly, nym, and the bravos...and even the cowboys.  I don't blame you at all, but I don't come on and question people's motives...

[mitlen]

Question to 'skins' fans:   Was Pat Bowden at Portis' news conference yesterday?

[Terpfan76]

the qb is a rookie because the coach choose to wait- I'm not blaming RGIII if we don't make the playoffs, but I don't see why shanny gets a pass for waiting. Playoffs doesn't mean I'm expecting an elite team- it's the nfl, half the teams make the playoffs.

So which qb would you rather them have gotten? Which direction should they have went? Some times the plan may not make sense until it comes to fruition. Look at the Nats... Did anyone truly believe we'd be in first place this late in the season and 30 games over .500?

Would you rather we got Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Mallett or Andy Dalton over Griffin? Dalton is the only one that really looks to be a player, but Mallett hasn't been given a shot yet and I reckon the jury is out on the other guys. I freely admit to being sadly mistaken on Scam Newton, but what are you gonna do but eat crow when it's on the menu.

I think time will show that Shanny has done a damn good job in turning the team around and at the minimum, pointing in the right direction.

[HalfSmokes]

So which qb would you rather them have gotten? Which direction should they have went? Some times the plan may not make sense until it comes to fruition. Look at the Nats... Did anyone truly believe we'd be in first place this late in the season and 30 games over .500?

Would you rather we got Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Mallett or Andy Dalton over Griffin? Dalton is the only one that really looks to be a player, but Mallett hasn't been given a shot yet and I reckon the jury is out on the other guys. I freely admit to being sadly mistaken on Scam Newton, but what are you gonna do but eat crow when it's on the menu.

I think time will show that Shanny has done a damn good job in turning the team around and at the minimum, pointing in the right direction.

Shanny has a worse winning percentage than Zorn- for all the talent he's supposedly assembled,  they don't seem to win games, compare this to the Nats all you want,  but what minor leagues are his talent hiding in?

[Terpfan76]

Shanny has a worse winning percentage than Zorn- for all the talent he's supposedly assembled,  they don't seem to win games, compare this to the Nats all you want,  but what minor leagues are his talent hiding in?

It's been 3 freaking seasons! Christ, it's not even worth discussing with you anymore. You want instant gratification. I want a team built the right way and if takes an extra season or two to get the players that fit in the system, then that's what it'll take. This team has been done in too many times by trying to buy players and fire the coach after one season. They finally start adding young players to the roster and ones that fit Shanny's system including a rookie qb, and it's going to be win now or else? freak! I was in HS when the Skins beat the Bills in the Super Bowl, that's over 20 years of misery. If I can take that, I can handle another season or two if it means being a legit contender for years to come.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

I wonder what the Vegas odds are as to how soon the Toronto Bills will be trotting out their new uniforms?

[Terpfan76]

I wonder what the Vegas odds are as to how soon the Toronto Bills will be trotting out their new uniforms?

What's the issue there anyways? Bills fans are pretty loyal aren't they? They looking for a new stadium or something? I haven't really paid them any attention since the 90's. Probably about the same time any non-Skins fans gave a rats ass about the Skins

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

I think they've been playing a couple of "home" games across the border for a few years now...kind of like the Expos in Puerto Rico 

But yeah, the fans are loyal and the place is always full.  And why the league would move a team from one border town where half of TV revenues are lost to the same situation on the other side doesn't really add up.  Especially when LA still doesn't have a team.

[blue911]

The Bills don't have luxury boxes and there's the rub. Same crap that sent the Browns scurrying off to Charm City.

[HalfSmokes]

It's been 3 freaking seasons! Christ, it's not even worth discussing with you anymore. You want instant gratification. I want a team built the right way and if takes an extra season or two to get the players that fit in the system, then that's what it'll take. This team has been done in too many times by trying to buy players and fire the coach after one season. They finally start adding young players to the roster and ones that fit Shanny's system including a rookie qb, and it's going to be win now or else? freak! I was in HS when the Skins beat the Bills in the Super Bowl, that's over 20 years of misery. If I can take that, I can handle another season or two if it means being a legit contender for years to come.

Other teams 'building the right way'  (if by that you mean through the draft)  jags bills Raiders seahawks vikings Browns dolphins...  Most teams including perpetual cellar dwellers do it that way.  Three years was also the time frame apologists were giving following following the debacle year one- if the team had actually been stockpiling talent that would have been reasonable

[Terpfan76]

Other teams 'building the right way'  (if by that you mean through the draft)  jags bills Raiders seahawks vikings Browns dolphins...  Most teams including perpetual cellar dwellers do it that way.  Three years was also the time frame apologists were giving following following the debacle year one- if the team had actually been stockpiling talent that would have been reasonable

McNabb was a huge mistake, we all know that now, but at the time, it didn't seem to be that way. He fit the system, mobile, strong armed vet. Guess we didn't realize he was lazy. The defense was built first and dividends showed last year and the d should be pretty damn good this year depending on if the safety/secondary situation comes together. On offense, the o-line is the question mark but played pretty well last year until Lichtensteiger went down. Then every thing seemed to fall apart. The fact that Rexy was so off and on didn't help. I gotta beleive that Griffin is going to be a huge upgrade over Rexy. I have no doubts that he'll make rookie mistakes, but he clearly seems smart enough to learn from them.

As far as building through the draft? What about the Lions, Falcons, Niners, Giants, Texans and Steelers etc...? I can cherry pick too.

[Tribe Time]

Other teams 'building the right way'  (if by that you mean through the draft)  jags bills Raiders seahawks vikings Browns dolphins...  Most teams including perpetual cellar dwellers do it that way.  Three years was also the time frame apologists were giving following following the debacle year one- if the team had actually been stockpiling talent that would have been reasonable

Umm...dude, recently the Browns have been building through the draft well...

2012: Trent Richardson, Mitchell Schwartz, Travis Benjamin, James Michael-Johnson, Emmanuel Acho, Trevin Wade, and in the supplemental draft, RG3's college teammate, Josh Gordon
(I wasn't high on the Schwartz pick at first, but everything I read on him and the way he's performed...it was a good pick).
2011: Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Greg Little
2010: Joe Haden, T.J. Ward, Colt McCoy, Shawn Lavauo, and at times Montario Hardesty
2009: Alex Mack
2008: Ahtyba Rubin
2007: Joe Thomas, Eric Wright (even though he's not on the team anymore - he had good years with CLE, and he's good in the NFL)
2006: D'Qwell Jackson, Lawrence Vickers
2005: Braylon Edwards, Brodney Pool (now anyways...he's good with the Jets.  In Cleveland, he spent more time trying to figure out how not to get injured)
2004: Kellen Winslow Jr.

Holmgren and Heckert took over in 2010.  If you'll notice before then we hit or miss on picks. Once Heckert Jr. took over the GM job (his dad was a former Browns GM back in the 80's and he also was the Dolphins GM when they were good), the picks became much better.    As I mentioned, recently the Browns have drafted better with Holmgren and Heckert Jr.  I just hope that when Haslam officially takes full control, he allows Heckert Jr. to stay, but from what I heard, he may want to bring a high level executive from Philly (which is where Heckert came from), to be GM.

The Skins on the other hand:

2012:  RG3 (he won't be terrible, but to me I just don't see him being the best or elite either), Kirk Cousins (ironically both are QB's)
2011: Ryan Kerrigan, Leonard Hankerson, and at times Roy Helu (I just don't see him as a #1 back)
2010: Trent Williams
2009: Brian Orapko (dude is a flat out beast)
2008: Fred Davis
2007: LaRon Landry
2006: Rocky McIntosh (at times)
2005: Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell (say what you want about him, but once he left D.C., he succeeded)
2004: Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley

2004 was one of your best drafts.  Cooley at TE, and Sean Taylor.  Taylor was an absolute beast.  We never truly know how good he could have been.  He was already nasty (in a good way)...if he had played out his entire career, suffice is to say, I assume first ballot H.O.F.

[HalfSmokes]

As far as building through the draft? What about the Lions, Falcons, Niners, Giants, Texans and Steelers etc...? I can cherry pick too.

It's not cherry picking,  my point was every team builds through the draft (if anything the Skins trade away picks more than most)

[Slateman]

lol, Tribe ... ur so funny

Orakpo has yet to prove he's a beast

[UMDNats]

Umm...dude, recently the Browns have been building through the draft well...

2011: 4-12
2010: 5-11
2009: 5-11
2008: 4-12

Keep building through the draft!

[mitlen]

2011: 4-12
2010: 5-11
2009: 5-11
2008: 4-12

Keep building through the draft!

(Image removed from quote.)

Do I sense some animosity toward the Browns?   

[JMW IV]

In order to build through the draft, you have to have a consistent philosophy that governs everything about your draft. Thats why it works for the Giants.

a lot of teams dont though.

[UMDNats]

Do I sense some animosity toward the Browns?   

[mitlen]

In order to build through the draft, you have to have a consistent philosophy that governs everything about your draft. Thats why it works for the Giants.

a lot of teams dont though.

Not just about building through the draft.   The Giants/Steelers/Pats, etc. have a philosophy that goes well beyond the draft.   They don't BS around with guys under contract who hold out, etc.   They jettison non-producing players who are hurt or old   ...   Plus, they let their football guys do what they do with little interference from the owner(s).

[blue911]

Not just about building through the draft.   The Giants/Steelers/Pats, etc. have a philosophy that goes well beyond the draft.   They don't BS around with guys under contract who hold out, etc.   They jettison non-producing players who are hurt or old   ...   Plus, they let their football guys do what they do with little interference from the owner(s).

Biscotti does a good job of staying out of football decisions.

[Tribe Time]

Biscotti does a good job of staying out of football decisions.

Yes, because we know that when you make one draft pick then your season all of a sudden turns around.

When you get your own football team that you didn't have to steal from another city and then decide to parade around wearing purple let me know.

[UMDNats]

Not just about building through the draft.   The Giants/Steelers/Pats, etc. have a philosophy that goes well beyond the draft.   They don't BS around with guys under contract who hold out, etc.   They jettison non-producing players who are hurt or old   ...   Plus, they let their football guys do what they do with little interference from the owner(s).

Biscotti does a good job of staying out of football decisions.

Good organizations, almost every time, start at the top. Organizational attitude.